MEC vote
12-08-2016 | 09:42 AM
#91
Bus driver
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 894
Likes: 9
12-08-2016 | 10:00 AM
#92
Snake
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
"...if the 12 had not put their feet down?"
You're not the only one trotting out this flawed logic. You cannot have it both ways.
On August 2nd, Malone informed the MEC that he was stuck, and needed re-direction. On August 12th, the Delusional Dozen decided to halt deliberations and issue a manifesto through Roger Goodwin. These twelve, led by Bill Bartels, decided to double down and engage in regressive bargaining.
It. Didn't. Work. The regressive direction resulted in the NMB moving on to other cases with higher probabilities of success. See Negotiator's Notepad 16-13. Remember "no further meetings are scheduled at this time?" We would still be there, and the comprehensive proposals exchanged on August 2nd would still be out there for everyone to see, and the answer would still be hanging somewhere in the middle, as our new PWA clearly demonstrates.
We spent three weeks looking over this cliff, our negotiators' hands tied behind their backs, and the banner towing over empty baseball stadiums notwithstanding, and the membership figured out that Bill Bartels wasn't taking his foot off the gas. They started to contact their reps, wondering what the hell was wrong with them.
The MEC spent the third week of September taking a long look at the polling data. It became clear to Bill that he was getting into unpopular territory with the membership. Everyone knew that the resolution was sitting somewhere in the middle ground between the proposals, and everyone knew that about 82 percent of the membership wanted a solid deal more than they wanted to go down the alternate path. Bill knew it too, and so the "twelve" turned out to be maybe five.
Their "tough stance" turned out to be nothing when the membership put a laser dot on them. They gave Malone what he needed to cut a deal, and salvaged their political ambitions for another day.
12-08-2016 | 10:10 AM
#93
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,246
Likes: 704
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
"...if the 12 had not put their feet down?"
You're not the only one trotting out this flawed logic. You cannot have it both ways.
On August 2nd, Malone informed the MEC that he was stuck, and needed re-direction. On August 12th, the Delusional Dozen decided to halt deliberations and issue a manifesto through Roger Goodwin. These twelve, led by Bill Bartels, decided to double down and engage in regressive bargaining.
It. Didn't. Work. The regressive direction resulted in the NMB moving on to other cases with higher probabilities of success. See Negotiator's Notepad 16-13. Remember "no further meetings are scheduled at this time?" We would still be there, and the comprehensive proposals exchanged on August 2nd would still be out there for everyone to see, and the answer would still be hanging somewhere in the middle, as our new PWA clearly demonstrates.
We spent three weeks looking over this cliff, our negotiators' hands tied behind their backs, and the banner towing over empty baseball stadiums notwithstanding, and the membership figured out that Bill Bartels wasn't taking his foot off the gas. They started to contact their reps, wondering what the hell was wrong with them.
The MEC spent the third week of September taking a long look at the polling data. It became clear to Bill that he was getting into unpopular territory with the membership. Everyone knew that the resolution was sitting somewhere in the middle ground between the proposals, and everyone knew that about 82 percent of the membership wanted a solid deal more than they wanted to go down the alternate path. Bill knew it too, and so the "twelve" turned out to be maybe five.
Their "tough stance" turned out to be nothing when the membership put a laser dot on them. They gave Malone what he needed to cut a deal, and salvaged their political ambitions for another day.
You're not the only one trotting out this flawed logic. You cannot have it both ways.
On August 2nd, Malone informed the MEC that he was stuck, and needed re-direction. On August 12th, the Delusional Dozen decided to halt deliberations and issue a manifesto through Roger Goodwin. These twelve, led by Bill Bartels, decided to double down and engage in regressive bargaining.
It. Didn't. Work. The regressive direction resulted in the NMB moving on to other cases with higher probabilities of success. See Negotiator's Notepad 16-13. Remember "no further meetings are scheduled at this time?" We would still be there, and the comprehensive proposals exchanged on August 2nd would still be out there for everyone to see, and the answer would still be hanging somewhere in the middle, as our new PWA clearly demonstrates.
We spent three weeks looking over this cliff, our negotiators' hands tied behind their backs, and the banner towing over empty baseball stadiums notwithstanding, and the membership figured out that Bill Bartels wasn't taking his foot off the gas. They started to contact their reps, wondering what the hell was wrong with them.
The MEC spent the third week of September taking a long look at the polling data. It became clear to Bill that he was getting into unpopular territory with the membership. Everyone knew that the resolution was sitting somewhere in the middle ground between the proposals, and everyone knew that about 82 percent of the membership wanted a solid deal more than they wanted to go down the alternate path. Bill knew it too, and so the "twelve" turned out to be maybe five.
Their "tough stance" turned out to be nothing when the membership put a laser dot on them. They gave Malone what he needed to cut a deal, and salvaged their political ambitions for another day.
How is this bad? The RJs being discussed vanished, profit sharing was reaffirmed, VEBAs were jettisoned and sick got the hospitalization verification. The focused narrowed and the deal became clearer.
During this time management reevaluated also and the must have RJs went from 1/2 to none. Being put on notice focused both sides.
12-08-2016 | 11:07 AM
#95
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 435
Likes: 16
"...if the 12 had not put their feet down?"
You're not the only one trotting out this flawed logic. You cannot have it both ways.
On August 2nd, Malone informed the MEC that he was stuck, and needed re-direction. On August 12th, the Delusional Dozen decided to halt deliberations and issue a manifesto through Roger Goodwin. These twelve, led by Bill Bartels, decided to double down and engage in regressive bargaining.
It. Didn't. Work. The regressive direction resulted in the NMB moving on to other cases with higher probabilities of success. See Negotiator's Notepad 16-13. Remember "no further meetings are scheduled at this time?" We would still be there, and the comprehensive proposals exchanged on August 2nd would still be out there for everyone to see, and the answer would still be hanging somewhere in the middle, as our new PWA clearly demonstrates.
We spent three weeks looking over this cliff, our negotiators' hands tied behind their backs, and the banner towing over empty baseball stadiums notwithstanding, and the membership figured out that Bill Bartels wasn't taking his foot off the gas. They started to contact their reps, wondering what the hell was wrong with them.
The MEC spent the third week of September taking a long look at the polling data. It became clear to Bill that he was getting into unpopular territory with the membership. Everyone knew that the resolution was sitting somewhere in the middle ground between the proposals, and everyone knew that about 82 percent of the membership wanted a solid deal more than they wanted to go down the alternate path. Bill knew it too, and so the "twelve" turned out to be maybe five.
Their "tough stance" turned out to be nothing when the membership put a laser dot on them. They gave Malone what he needed to cut a deal, and salvaged their political ambitions for another day.
You're not the only one trotting out this flawed logic. You cannot have it both ways.
On August 2nd, Malone informed the MEC that he was stuck, and needed re-direction. On August 12th, the Delusional Dozen decided to halt deliberations and issue a manifesto through Roger Goodwin. These twelve, led by Bill Bartels, decided to double down and engage in regressive bargaining.
It. Didn't. Work. The regressive direction resulted in the NMB moving on to other cases with higher probabilities of success. See Negotiator's Notepad 16-13. Remember "no further meetings are scheduled at this time?" We would still be there, and the comprehensive proposals exchanged on August 2nd would still be out there for everyone to see, and the answer would still be hanging somewhere in the middle, as our new PWA clearly demonstrates.
We spent three weeks looking over this cliff, our negotiators' hands tied behind their backs, and the banner towing over empty baseball stadiums notwithstanding, and the membership figured out that Bill Bartels wasn't taking his foot off the gas. They started to contact their reps, wondering what the hell was wrong with them.
The MEC spent the third week of September taking a long look at the polling data. It became clear to Bill that he was getting into unpopular territory with the membership. Everyone knew that the resolution was sitting somewhere in the middle ground between the proposals, and everyone knew that about 82 percent of the membership wanted a solid deal more than they wanted to go down the alternate path. Bill knew it too, and so the "twelve" turned out to be maybe five.
Their "tough stance" turned out to be nothing when the membership put a laser dot on them. They gave Malone what he needed to cut a deal, and salvaged their political ambitions for another day.
......and profit sharing, scope, and a bit more pay were saved, with full retro. We got time value of the givebacks. IOW, Bill found his line in the sand with his people. EXACTLY how the process should work, when you actually let the process unfold and show a little game face
BTW, that "another day" was yesterday. Nothing lost and who knows what else was gained and saved, hence your crow post. Now the sour grapes start, with the recall BS in ATL and MSP, and the utterly shameful behavior of an EA and the Comm chair. Utterly shameful.
The sun will rise again tomorrow, crow, as it did today. The recall card has been overplayed and lost its effectiveness. I'm out of this discussion. Time to move forward, which I was going to do regardless of the outcome. Suggest everyone enjoy their raise, and their upcoming raise. Happy holidays all!!!!
12-08-2016 | 11:16 AM
#96
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
......and profit sharing, scope, and a bit more pay were saved, with full retro. We got time value of the givebacks. IOW, Bill found his line in the sand with his people. EXACTLY how the process should work, when you actually let the process unfold and show a little game face
BTW, that "another day" was yesterday. Nothing lost and who knows what else was gained and saved, hence your crow post. Now the sour grapes start, with the recall BS in ATL and MSP, and the utterly shameful behavior of an EA and the Comm chair. Utterly shameful.
The sun will rise again tomorrow, crow, as it did today. The recall card has been overplayed and lost its effectiveness. I'm out of this discussion. Time to move forward, which I was going to do regardless of the outcome. Suggest everyone enjoy their raise, and their upcoming raise. Happy holidays all!!!!
BTW, that "another day" was yesterday. Nothing lost and who knows what else was gained and saved, hence your crow post. Now the sour grapes start, with the recall BS in ATL and MSP, and the utterly shameful behavior of an EA and the Comm chair. Utterly shameful.
The sun will rise again tomorrow, crow, as it did today. The recall card has been overplayed and lost its effectiveness. I'm out of this discussion. Time to move forward, which I was going to do regardless of the outcome. Suggest everyone enjoy their raise, and their upcoming raise. Happy holidays all!!!!
12-08-2016 | 11:52 AM
#97
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 9
From: 3fidy
It's a shame that a guy with the leadership of Malone gets kicked to the curb. He did a great service to his fellow pilots bringing the wide range of opinions together to produce a nice contract. Don't know anything about Bartels but I not interested in going back to the NW style of management-pilot relations. Why doesn't the entire group vote for the MEC?
12-08-2016 | 11:55 AM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,823
Likes: 169
From: window seat
It's a shame that a guy with the leadership of Malone gets kicked to the curb. He did a great service to his fellow pilots bringing the wide range of opinions together to produce a nice contract. Don't know anything about Bartels but I not interested in going back to the NW style of management-pilot relations. Why doesn't the entire group vote for the MEC?
JM served the pilots, I respect him for it, and its time he go back to the line.
12-08-2016 | 12:01 PM
#99
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 9
From: 3fidy
I like JM and think he did a descent job all things considered. But when you campaign on leaving after a TA and you get a successful TA, its time to leave. The last thing we need are more Moaks who muddy the waters saying they have no plans to run for national at this time and then immediately do it.
JM served the pilots, I respect him for it, and its time he go back to the line.
JM served the pilots, I respect him for it, and its time he go back to the line.
12-08-2016 | 12:05 PM
#100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,844
Likes: 0
From: 765-A
It's a shame that a guy with the leadership of Malone gets kicked to the curb. He did a great service to his fellow pilots bringing the wide range of opinions together to produce a nice contract. Don't know anything about Bartels but I not interested in going back to the NW style of management-pilot relations....
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