Fun letter from the Negotiating Committee
12-11-2016, 04:16 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 5-9 block, kill removing
Posts: 385
Originally Posted by Tailhookah
Pog needs to hush. 82% disagree with you.
82% voted yes. Holding their nose. Resigned it wouldn't get better. Has nothing to do with disagreeing with Poggi. I'm sure many "yes" voters are on his side.
12-11-2016, 04:49 PM
#32
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by Raging white
Denying the antecedent.
82% voted yes. Holding their nose. Resigned it wouldn't get better. Has nothing to do with disagreeing with Poggi. I'm sure many "yes" voters are on his side.
82% voted yes. Holding their nose. Resigned it wouldn't get better. Has nothing to do with disagreeing with Poggi. I'm sure many "yes" voters are on his side.
Some giddily voted yes, some voted yes simply for my last reason that they saw little to no upside sending this one back.
To hard claim that either one of those is absolutely the case just shallowly pushing an agenda (to be clear, this isn't aimed at just you, Raging White).
12-12-2016, 03:38 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 5-9 block, kill removing
Posts: 385
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
As usual, I'm sure the truth is somewhere in between. I certainly wasn't holding my nose when I voted yes, but I also don't consider it a home run either. I thought it was the optimum outcome of the no vote last year, and that we wouldn't reasonably improve this time from turning it back.
Some giddily voted yes, some voted yes simply for my last reason that they saw little to no upside sending this one back.
To hard claim that either one of those is absolutely the case just shallowly pushing an agenda (to be clear, this isn't aimed at just you, Raging White).
Some giddily voted yes, some voted yes simply for my last reason that they saw little to no upside sending this one back.
To hard claim that either one of those is absolutely the case just shallowly pushing an agenda (to be clear, this isn't aimed at just you, Raging White).
12-12-2016, 07:46 AM
#35
Snake
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 242
Poggi on 8 November:
"Also, our mandate was to remove the toxins from the previous TA, improve the pay numbers, protect F/O OE provisions and fix sick. Other than the "catastrophic" clause, I thought we attained those goals."
"the NC negotiated a TA, the MEC was involved during the entire process, we used polling data, etc to ensure we were following the will of the membership, and we debated. This is the best deal, this team (Including myself) can bring you."
Poggi after the December MEC Meeting:
"I have a fiduciary responsibility in representing you. My resolve to meet that responsibility was continuously challenged by an administration that on many occasions failed to provide me requested information to base decisions on.”
"We (the LEC reps) were told to use polling data until it didn’t align with the narrative coming from the administration and the Negotiating Committee.”
"I’ll describe John’s leadership style as autocratic. The MEC chairman, by Policy Manual, works for the MEC. I felt that the process leading up to the TA was more of a manipulation to get us where the chairman thought we should go."
That's what Poggi wrote. It is not defensible. It's crazy talk. It's a screed of flip flopping nonsense. This clown gets to make decisions that affect my life?
"Also, our mandate was to remove the toxins from the previous TA, improve the pay numbers, protect F/O OE provisions and fix sick. Other than the "catastrophic" clause, I thought we attained those goals."
"the NC negotiated a TA, the MEC was involved during the entire process, we used polling data, etc to ensure we were following the will of the membership, and we debated. This is the best deal, this team (Including myself) can bring you."
Poggi after the December MEC Meeting:
"I have a fiduciary responsibility in representing you. My resolve to meet that responsibility was continuously challenged by an administration that on many occasions failed to provide me requested information to base decisions on.”
"We (the LEC reps) were told to use polling data until it didn’t align with the narrative coming from the administration and the Negotiating Committee.”
"I’ll describe John’s leadership style as autocratic. The MEC chairman, by Policy Manual, works for the MEC. I felt that the process leading up to the TA was more of a manipulation to get us where the chairman thought we should go."
That's what Poggi wrote. It is not defensible. It's crazy talk. It's a screed of flip flopping nonsense. This clown gets to make decisions that affect my life?
12-12-2016, 09:01 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 173
Originally Posted by rube
Poggi on 8 November:
"Also, our mandate was to remove the toxins from the previous TA, improve the pay numbers, protect F/O OE provisions and fix sick. Other than the "catastrophic" clause, I thought we attained those goals."
"the NC negotiated a TA, the MEC was involved during the entire process, we used polling data, etc to ensure we were following the will of the membership, and we debated. This is the best deal, this team (Including myself) can bring you."
Poggi after the December MEC Meeting:
"I have a fiduciary responsibility in representing you. My resolve to meet that responsibility was continuously challenged by an administration that on many occasions failed to provide me requested information to base decisions on.”
"We (the LEC reps) were told to use polling data until it didn’t align with the narrative coming from the administration and the Negotiating Committee.”
"I’ll describe John’s leadership style as autocratic. The MEC chairman, by Policy Manual, works for the MEC. I felt that the process leading up to the TA was more of a manipulation to get us where the chairman thought we should go."
That's what Poggi wrote. It is not defensible. It's crazy talk. It's a screed of flip flopping nonsense. This clown gets to make decisions that affect my life?
"Also, our mandate was to remove the toxins from the previous TA, improve the pay numbers, protect F/O OE provisions and fix sick. Other than the "catastrophic" clause, I thought we attained those goals."
"the NC negotiated a TA, the MEC was involved during the entire process, we used polling data, etc to ensure we were following the will of the membership, and we debated. This is the best deal, this team (Including myself) can bring you."
Poggi after the December MEC Meeting:
"I have a fiduciary responsibility in representing you. My resolve to meet that responsibility was continuously challenged by an administration that on many occasions failed to provide me requested information to base decisions on.”
"We (the LEC reps) were told to use polling data until it didn’t align with the narrative coming from the administration and the Negotiating Committee.”
"I’ll describe John’s leadership style as autocratic. The MEC chairman, by Policy Manual, works for the MEC. I felt that the process leading up to the TA was more of a manipulation to get us where the chairman thought we should go."
That's what Poggi wrote. It is not defensible. It's crazy talk. It's a screed of flip flopping nonsense. This clown gets to make decisions that affect my life?
"the NC negotiated a TA, the MEC was involved during the entire process, we used polling data, etc to ensure we were following the will of the membership, and we debated. This is the best deal, this team (Including myself) can bring you."
Second step, Poggi reestablishing street creds after the ratification with the chitchat crowd.
"I felt that the process leading up to the TA was more of a manipulation to get us where the chairman thought we should go."
12-12-2016, 11:09 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 852
Originally Posted by notEnuf
If MEC members run and have like minded leanings you would expect...?
Originally Posted by notEnuf
Were you not aware of the candidates and their positions? Pretty sure there wasn't any secrecy about those MEC members preferences. I think they ran as a block.
No mention of a block. No mention of a slate or support for each other.
No mention, amidst Bill's bullet points, of a full-time transition coordinator. In fact, he emphasized (in bold print) that he was up-to-speed, and ready to go.
"I am “current” and up to date on all
the issues relative to C2015 negotiations, how we got here, why
we are where we are, and what’s been agreed to in TA2. I’ve been
on the MEC since negotiations preparation began in late 2014.
I’m also familiar from a first person point of view with the improvements
and accomplishments over the past several years as well with
changes that I believe are still necessary."
I'm not alleging any sort of sinister action here, but naming another voting member of the MEC (who voted for you) to a position like this, has the aroma of a back room deal. Had it been mentioned in his campaign letter, or his nominating speech to the MEC, then I would concede your point.
12-12-2016, 01:56 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,033
Originally Posted by Karnak
The transparency you mentioned.
I just re-read the campaign letters from Bill and Ryan.
No mention of a block. No mention of a slate or support for each other.
No mention, amidst Bill's bullet points, of a full-time transition coordinator. In fact, he emphasized (in bold print) that he was up-to-speed, and ready to go.
"I am “current” and up to date on all
the issues relative to C2015 negotiations, how we got here, why
we are where we are, and what’s been agreed to in TA2. I’ve been
on the MEC since negotiations preparation began in late 2014.
I’m also familiar from a first person point of view with the improvements
and accomplishments over the past several years as well with
changes that I believe are still necessary."
I'm not alleging any sort of sinister action here, but naming another voting member of the MEC (who voted for you) to a position like this, has the aroma of a back room deal. Had it been mentioned in his campaign letter, or his nominating speech to the MEC, then I would concede your point.
I just re-read the campaign letters from Bill and Ryan.
No mention of a block. No mention of a slate or support for each other.
No mention, amidst Bill's bullet points, of a full-time transition coordinator. In fact, he emphasized (in bold print) that he was up-to-speed, and ready to go.
"I am “current” and up to date on all
the issues relative to C2015 negotiations, how we got here, why
we are where we are, and what’s been agreed to in TA2. I’ve been
on the MEC since negotiations preparation began in late 2014.
I’m also familiar from a first person point of view with the improvements
and accomplishments over the past several years as well with
changes that I believe are still necessary."
I'm not alleging any sort of sinister action here, but naming another voting member of the MEC (who voted for you) to a position like this, has the aroma of a back room deal. Had it been mentioned in his campaign letter, or his nominating speech to the MEC, then I would concede your point.
Is this outrage over MEC members runnuing for administrative positions? They will allways have their votes. I suspect this is more about the result.
12-12-2016, 02:41 PM
#40
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Originally Posted by Karnak
No mention, amidst Bill's bullet points, of a full-time transition coordinator. In fact, he emphasized (in bold print) that he was up-to-speed, and ready to go.
There's a whole bunch of old guard Moakists that have been in the office doing "committee work" for a long long time. They haven't flown a schedule for years.
They're going to need some help with the transition back to flying the line.
I think it was very thoughtful of Bill.
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