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Originally Posted by buckleyboy
(Post 2287743)
The same would be true if it passed narrowly. So why the interest in the margin earlier, sailingfun? Would your curiosity be just as piqued had it passed by a single vote?
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Originally Posted by MikeF16
(Post 2287886)
Other than occasionally reading this board I pay zero attention to ALPA politics. Fortunately having read this board, I know that anything the Moakies want is something I don't want. With zero knowledge of what these 2 FO's allegedly did, I'll vote to keep them. Thanks Obama.
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Originally Posted by Wuzatforus
(Post 2287797)
I guess you didn't get retro or a raise?
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Originally Posted by MikeF16
(Post 2287886)
Other than occasionally reading this board I pay zero attention to ALPA politics. Fortunately having read this board, I know that anything the Moakies want is something I don't want. With zero knowledge of what these 2 FO's allegedly did, I'll vote to keep them. Thanks Obama.
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Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 2287928)
Simple. The FO reps voted for Bartels and an MEC admin that likely IMO the majority of C44 membership would not have supported over Malone. Violation of the will of the Council. Is it a bad enough offense to require recall? The Council will decide but at the very least I think it deserves a vote so I supported the motion to recall.
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Originally Posted by Dharma
(Post 2287785)
One man's holy crusade is another man's clown show.
Now that TA2 is history, I don't think Jimmy or Chris really want to be reps. Their DPA is dying, no contract negotiations to grandstand over; maybe they'll spare us more "clown" and just resign. They don't want to do the work. They "really don't want to be reps". Who, in their right mind, "wants" to be a rep? Those who do, should be closely watched. From my interactions with them, they simply "want" to do the right thing on behalf of their fellow pilots. Tying them both to DPA is baloney. One had some previous ties - just like thousands of other pilots, including JM, the former MEC Chair. Grandstanding? Examples please. Your "Clown" comment ranks right up there with Rocket Surgeons, Morons, NoRons and ***** Whiners. Name calling is the hallmark of a very loud minority in our ranks. Oh, let's not forget, "1,000 days, a billion dollars", too. Those descriptors originated from the same group who tried to shove TA1 down our throats, gobbled up $1.7M in Flight Pay Loss, fought tooth and nail to stop (justified) recalls in 2015, and now attack two of the guys who got us TA2. They were all in attendance yesterday supporting recall. Shocker. Oh, and some chief pilots were in on the action yesterday, too. The docile, disengaged pilot group is vulnerable to being overrun again with management apologists taking control of the MEC again. History does repeat itself. Help secure a big contract and get recalled. The Delta way. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 2287931)
Received a interesting email this morning. Since I don't have permission I won't repost. I took no side in the vote. Now I wish I had at least for one rep it appears directly lied to me about his ties to DPA.
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 2287931)
Received a interesting email this morning. Since I don't have permission I won't repost. I took no side in the vote. Now I wish I had at least for one rep it appears directly lied to me about his ties to DPA.
This was all orchestrated by the same folks who orchestrated the recall defeat in 2015. Some Delta pilots just hate getting a raise. Weird. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 2287931)
Received a interesting email this morning. Since I don't have permission I won't repost. I took no side in the vote. Now I wish I had at least for one rep it appears directly lied to me about his ties to DPA.
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Names or initials please?
Originally Posted by RonRicco
(Post 2287907)
Moakies? First, I think the odds of anybody getting elected on the Moak platform is near zero. Although there were some former Moak supporters at the meeting, there were also many former reps (several former North) and vounteers that were as far away from the Moak doctrine as you can get. I bring up the fact they were reps because until you have actually walked a mile in their shoes, it is hard to know what the job really entails.
Line pilots generally only judge a rep on how they may vote or what position they appear to take on a subject. The job is much more than that. The MEC isn't Congress, (how is their approval rating?) it is a board and behavior, process etc matter. When you have former "anti Moak" North Reps that have ZERO political ambition supporting their recall, that should be enough to know that the recall has nothing to do with Moakism. If the shoe were on the other foot and these two were perceived as Moakies and based on their actions, social media would be in support of their recall just like it was last year for the previous reps. It seems like anytime the perceived social media majority is in the minority on a position, it immediately labels the opposing side as Moakies (it certainly is not in this case), that the room is stacked with people from the Admin (again false as the Admin would be their supporters), that the average line pilot didn't know as "every guy I fly with says...." (Again BS, many, many communications have been put out to the pilots of 44.) So maybe it just happens that line pilots who have a different opinion than the social media majority, actually took the time to bid off, go to a meeting and let their voices be heard without their being some conspiracy or personal agenda other than they don't feel like THEY are being represented? Naaaa it was all just a bunch of Moakies who want to be in power again... SMDH... Please excuse typos and grammar as I am in a hurry. |
Originally Posted by Peoloto
(Post 2288000)
Incredible. There you are with your inaccurate statement du jour.
November 5, 2010 Johnson donated to DPA $50 August 4, 2011 Johnson donated to DPA $100 March 8, 2013 Johnson donated to DPA $102 At a certain point after 2013, DPA stopped reporting financial information so we don't know what other contributions were made. Johnson has a testimonial on the DPA website supporting their organizing effort. Johnson’s DPA # is 823251. His financial contributions and testimonial are available to anyone with DPA website access. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 2288024)
So is the following inaccurate?
November 5, 2010 Johnson donated to DPA $50 August 4, 2011 Johnson donated to DPA $100 March 8, 2013 Johnson donated to DPA $102 At a certain point after 2013, DPA stopped reporting financial information so we don't know what other contributions were made. Johnson has a testimonial on the DPA website supporting their organizing effort. Johnson’s DPA # is 823251. His financial contributions and testimonial are available to anyone with DPA website access. |
Originally Posted by Peoloto
(Post 2288046)
Your beloved Malone was a DPA supporter too. As you Moakies like to say "Can't cherry pick".
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Originally Posted by RonRicco
(Post 2287907)
Moakies? First, I think the odds of anybody getting elected on the Moak platform is near zero. Although there were some former Moak supporters at the meeting, there were also many former reps (several former North) and vounteers that were as far away from the Moak doctrine as you can get. I bring up the fact they were reps because until you have actually walked a mile in their shoes, it is hard to know what the job really entails.
Line pilots generally only judge a rep on how they may vote or what position they appear to take on a subject. The job is much more than that. The MEC isn't Congress, (how is their approval rating?) it is a board and behavior, process etc matter. When you have former "anti Moak" North Reps that have ZERO political ambition supporting their recall, that should be enough to know that the recall has nothing to do with Moakism. If the shoe were on the other foot and these two were perceived as Moakies and based on their actions, social media would be in support of their recall just like it was last year for the previous reps. It seems like anytime the perceived social media majority is in the minority on a position, it immediately labels the opposing side as Moakies (it certainly is not in this case), that the room is stacked with people from the Admin (again false as the Admin would be their supporters), that the average line pilot didn't know as "every guy I fly with says...." (Again BS, many, many communications have been put out to the pilots of 44.) So maybe it just happens that line pilots who have a different opinion than the social media majority, actually took the time to bid off, go to a meeting and let their voices be heard without their being some conspiracy or personal agenda other than they don't feel like THEY are being represented? Naaaa it was all just a bunch of Moakies who want to be in power again... SMDH... Please excuse typos and grammar as I am in a hurry. Get real. |
Management wants 2 more reps just like Sam and Scott "little wiggle room" Martin.
That way they can reduce our international flying further via JV letters of agreement with no MEMRAT. |
Originally Posted by gzsg
(Post 2288070)
Who were these former north reps?? Moaks best friend Innerbichler?
Get real. The list of those in attendance and their votes are public and can viewed by all. Look at the list and you might be surprised. |
Originally Posted by Wuzatforus
(Post 2287942)
...Your "Clown" comment ranks right up there with Rocket Surgeons, Morons, NoRons and ***** Whiners.
Hey, you got a problem with Clowns talk to poster #34 Elliott. He started it. That particular phrase is just to illustrate that there are different ways of viewing the same picture. When the previous C44 reps were recalled for not voting the way their constituents voted, some in C44 couldn't find a rope and tree fast enough. Now it's the exact opposite from these folks. Where are you on the "opposite"? One time it's ok, the next not? It makes anyone look foolish to have a double standard. Why not just illustrate why these two gentlemen did such a great job. Were they leaders at the recent BOD last October, have they represented their council with open and intelligent opinions, do they help their pilots out with conflicts with the Chief Pilot Office? If so, word will get out and they have no concern with being recalled by their pilots. Oh, and by the way... it's almost 100% unanimous on ChitChat that these guys have done a great job. |
Where is this list? Couldn't find it on the C44 link.
Originally Posted by RonRicco
(Post 2288086)
I think he is still a member of C1 :)
The list of those in attendance and their votes are public and can viewed by all. Look at the list and you might be surprised. |
Originally Posted by NERD
(Post 2288116)
Where is this list? Couldn't find it on the C44 link.
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Those in favor of recall is a list of who's who that were screaming and crying on their knees that we had to vote yes for TA1 and that we would never get one penny more.
We couldn't have better reps than Jimmy and Chris. The voting against their recall begins tomorrow and runs for only 14 days. That was efficient or convenient. |
I can tell y'all as an outsider looking in, with choices to make, the airing of union dirty laundry and public bickering is .... disappointing.
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Originally Posted by RonRicco
(Post 2287907)
Moakies? First, I think the odds of anybody getting elected on the Moak platform is near zero. Although there were some former Moak supporters at the meeting, there were also many former reps (several former North) and vounteers that were as far away from the Moak doctrine as you can get. I bring up the fact they were reps because until you have actually walked a mile in their shoes, it is hard to know what the job really entails.
Please excuse typos and grammar as I am in a hurry. |
I asked also. I'm not sure what former North reps are based in Atlanta
Originally Posted by iceman49
(Post 2288235)
Who are the several former North reps? Initials are fine.
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Originally Posted by NERD
(Post 2288289)
I asked also. I'm not sure what former North reps are based in Atlanta
Sounds like you are dealing with the same people who gave us TA15. :D |
Sure glad I'm paying 1.9% for this idiocy.
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Originally Posted by Hossharris
(Post 2288198)
I can tell y'all as an outsider looking in, with choices to make, the airing of union dirty laundry and public bickering is .... disappointing.
Don't let this sway your mind on whether to come here or not. Everyone I work with has been great and upbeat. Unfortunately, there will always be those who will never be happy, as well as those who love the political game. Just remember, never trust a pilot in a suit...:D |
Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 2287928)
Simple. The FO reps voted for Bartels and an MEC admin that likely IMO the majority of C44 membership would not have supported over Malone. Violation of the will of the Council. Is it a bad enough offense to require recall? The Council will decide but at the very least I think it deserves a vote so I supported the motion to recall.
Trip: Why would a typical, non political, regular line pilot care how their rep voted for MEC Chairman? What's going to be the main difference between Bartells and Malone for the next 2 years, and what good will recalling the ATL reps do? |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 2287931)
Received a interesting email this morning. Since I don't have permission I won't repost. I took no side in the vote. Now I wish I had at least for one rep it appears directly lied to me about his ties to DPA.
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 2288024)
So is the following inaccurate?
November 5, 2010 Johnson donated to DPA $50 August 4, 2011 Johnson donated to DPA $100 March 8, 2013 Johnson donated to DPA $102 At a certain point after 2013, DPA stopped reporting financial information so we don't know what other contributions were made. Johnson has a testimonial on the DPA website supporting their organizing effort. Johnson’s DPA # is 823251. His financial contributions and testimonial are available to anyone with DPA website access. Did you vote for the reps to get recalled last year? |
Originally Posted by NERD
(Post 2288289)
I asked also. I'm not sure what former North reps are based in Atlanta
If I were the type, I could check his schedule and see if he was paid to come over from the ALPA offices and stick his nose in Local politics. But, that isn't my groove. He has the right to participate. |
Originally Posted by newKnow
(Post 2288353)
Sailing,
Did you vote for the reps to get recalled last year? I voted against recall, what's it to you? |
Originally Posted by newKnow
(Post 2288352)
Trip:
Why would a typical, non political, regular line pilot care how their rep voted for MEC Chairman? What's going to be the main difference between Bartells and Malone for the next 2 years, and what good will recalling the ATL reps do? The main difference between Bartels and Malone can be seen when you list their accomplishments next to each other. |
Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 2288385)
A typical line pilot should care about critical events like this that can impact a career. I would have much preferred Capt Malone than Capt Bartels.
The main difference between Bartels and Malone can be seen when you list their accomplishments next to each other. We're gonna be recall machines. |
Originally Posted by Wuzatforus
(Post 2288387)
So, every important vote made by a rep in which you disagree with should trigger a recall?
We're gonna be recall machines. What is disturbing to me is that as part of the "12" they refused to discuss and debate. I don't mind the difference of opinion, but when you just come back with a cram down and are unwilling to interact, it leads me to believe they are not open to new ideas or the possibility of improvement or modifications that might make a better product. Did they not interact for their own reasons, or is someone else doing their thinking for them? They never clearly explained why. |
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 2288384)
So, what good does it do you (and your friends) trying to get your list of who voted for what together? Intimidation? Retribution? Just getting some co-workers to hate on? What's the point?
I voted against recall, what's it to you? Take note of a couple of things: 1.) I am not trying to get a list together for anything. 2.) My friends aren't trying to get a list together. 3.) I didn't ask you how you voted. 4.) I don't care how you voted. 5.) I asked Sailing how he voted. 6.) I quoted two of Sailings (not yours) posts to allude to why I was asking HIM if he voted for the previous recalls. 7.) Take note that I asked Sailing if he voted for recall last year (and try to figure out how I would be looking to intimidate someone a year after the fact.) 8.) Return to points 3 & 4 and read them over and over. Thanks, in advance. P.S. - For you to suggest that I would do anything to cause intimidation or retribution against ANYONE, is indicative of how ignorant you are as to the type of person I am. We've never met. But, you might want to ask around. |
Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 2288385)
A typical line pilot should care about critical events like this that can impact a career. I would have much preferred Capt Malone than Capt Bartels.
The main difference between Bartels and Malone can be seen when you list their accomplishments next to each other. Why would a typical line guy say, "Damn! We had better recall they guys who voted for Bartell. They really screwed me over." Can you name something specific on the horizon? |
My NewKnow speaks for me.
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Originally Posted by newKnow
(Post 2288413)
That's not really what I asked, Trip. Going forward, how would Bartells' and Malone have been different?
Why would a typical line guy say, "Damn! We had better recall they guys who voted for Bartell. They really screwed me over." Can you name something specific on the horizon? |
Originally Posted by Bradshaw24
(Post 2288450)
I think we will learn soon enough what a typical line pilot cares about in C44. I think we will see whether they want an LEC that works together or not.
I don't really think either one is worthy of recall, but I'm not in C44. The people that brought on and sold hard the pitiful failure that was TA2015 were worthy of recall. Bring on a failure like that, and it is certainly worthy of recall. This is just deposed people wanting revenge. (Sorry, RonRicco- gotta differ with you here!) JJ did make a dummy move with his "yes" then "wait, no" vote. Worthy of a recall? I think it was an idiot move but it wasn't damaging in any way. He should not run again, and if he does he should not be elected. The fools that got recalled and deposed after the failed TA2015 were all worthy. That was freaking pathetic. |
Originally Posted by Bradshaw24
(Post 2288450)
I think we will learn soon enough what a typical line pilot cares about in C44. I think we will see whether they want an LEC that works together or not.
Do you not realize that there are different opinions out there? Do you think everything should be unanimous, which would essentially make it unilateral? 80 Johnson is right about NewK Johnson's being right. |
Originally Posted by Dharma
(Post 2288397)
Jimmy and Chris have taken a lot of votes and there's been no discussion of recall for any of those.
What is disturbing to me is that as part of the "12" they refused to discuss and debate. I don't mind the difference of opinion, but when you just come back with a cram down and are unwilling to interact, it leads me to believe they are not open to new ideas or the possibility of improvement or modifications that might make a better product. Did they not interact for their own reasons, or is someone else doing their thinking for them? They never clearly explained why. It's fine when the C108 chair has his little "caucuses", but when he's excluded, watch out! |
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