Im not taking sides in another councils dispute but this argument you propose can go both ways. If I read you correctly, you are saying the FO reps are not working with the Capt reps...........could not the opposite be said too?

Denny

Nailed. It.

I agree that this probably happens. What I don't like is the refusal to discuss and debate afterwards. To me, it's like saying, "I know it all and talking to the other side won't change my mind." That's not right.

It has the potential to be significantly different. Gains like 5:15 ADG can be made mid cycle. Capt Malone's Admin brings a firm but reasonable approach to engaging management that has a proven track record of success. Captain Bartel's admin has a track track record of being very militant and adversial. History has proven over and over that the militant approach yields little to no results.

Big decisions like virtual bases are on the horizon. Will Kern and Johnson listen to the will of 44 or follow their own mantra?

Of course there are different opinions out there. That's why I find it odd that some here would presume to speak for the typical line pilot. That's why I wrote, that we will soon see what the typical line pilot cares about. And no, everything doesn't need to be unanimous. I never said it did.

That's true as well.

"Gonna?" I think that ship already sailed. Unfortunately it appears that we are recall machines. :cool:

Scoop

So you want a MEC that management walks all over just to net you more $$$? We all know that's all you care about. Don't forget a line pilot saved us from the "inadvertently" filed 9:45 exemption. Malone and crew had no idea they were being played. Would BB have caught it? Who knows but it's obvious things have changed and we need someone who will stand up.

Does that include your reps?

It sailed in 2015 with an orgy of recalls, loudly cheered on SM and by the two f/o reps being recalled. The hypocrisy is dripping.

Can anybody who was there shed some light on the discussion? Was the recall based upon the TA vote? The MEC chairman vote?

Both of those would be seriously stupid reasons to recall a rep. Recalls should only be based on misconduct or failure to do the job. Was there any of that mentioned?

You think Malone's Admin gets "walked over"? You must not know how things work. The company could not force 9:45 on the pilots even if the filing wasn't caught.

Your last "stand up" statement speaks volumes of the militant approach. All noise, all pride, no results.

So, you really don't think that BB can secure gains like 5:15 ADG when and IF the opportunities present themselves? Ok. That's a big assumption with no real proof that that's the case.

It also assumes that big opportunities like that will present themselves within the next two years. I was just wondering if there there anything specific that you see that will definitely need to be addressed. Is there?

Who knows what will happen? Maybe having BB as Chair will be beneficial to us. Maybe, the reputation you have painted of him will serve as a deterrent to the company against them being too aggressive in implementing virtual bases and the FRB?

Like I said, who knows? So far, you guys aren't providing any concrete instances of future doom and gloom, or missed opportunities, for us to be wary of. Maybe we should wait to see what happens, before we assume the worst.

Finally, I don't mean to nit pick, but it's, "Capt Malone's Admin brought a firm but reasonable approach to engaging management that has a proven track record of success.

I am appreciative of the work Captain Malone did as our past MEC Chairman. I think he did a great job. He should be proud of the TA he brought us and the fact that it was voted in by the largest margin in Delta history. I voted for it.

Let's see what Bartells "brings" during his term. If he does a bad job, maybe Malone can run again and you guys can say "I told you so."

What you are doing now, comes off as overly political and smells like sour grapes. I believe, recalling reps because of one vote weakens our union.

The DPA crowd is happy, because you guys are bringing them back from oblivion.

And I'll bet the vast majority of the bell curve isn't remotely interested in any of this.

I'll vouch for ya NewK. You are probably THE most apolitical poster on here.

And your approach is no noise, no pride and results that only slightly help your checking account but nothing else.

Bingo. .

Stated reasons? The TA vote was not included in the resolution; the MEC chairman vote was. There were also additional "reasons" cited that boil down to "not doing the job." (No evidence of that point presented, simply a statement in the resolution.)

Real reasons? Doesn't take much reading between the lines: get the guys who aren't falling in line out ASAP, then once the "old guard" (not my phrase, but pretty accurate) is back in majority, remove BB & put their own guy in.

As another poster has said: Pathetic. And, to quote a speaker at the meeting: "The company is laughing at us."

Your last sentence is the most important one. No good could possibly come from this for the pilot group. But, that's not the point, is it?

Almost forgot. How could the company not make us fly 9:45. PWA says FAR limits does it not? Guess what becomes a new FAR for us if they got that exemption? Just goes to show all you care about is $$.

Thanks JB! I hope all is well with you. :)

You don't think this went on with DALPA in the past? The only difference is that the "Dirty Dozen" had the integrity to do it in public, knowing full well there would be blowback.

This is what I'm talking about folks. NWA bravado at its best. Wants to be militant while having little to no knowledge of what he's talking about. If you're skeptical that the sky isn't blue at least look outside. Reference the following from Captain Malone:

From SD:

Stating the Company could have unilaterally imposed 9:45 without regard to union input or the PWA is nonsense and an alternative fact.

Bingo! That's how we do things at DAL.... Stop rocking the boat....the money might fall out...

That's too bad. Recalls without a "cause" that can be documented and passes the smell test are dumb.

Wait a minute. Are you saying that the "new guard" are more enlightened than the "old guard"? Drawing lines and choosing sides sounds righteous, but it's just politics. Each faction needs to make their case for their vision, and provide a logical strategy for achieving it. The pilot group isn't stupid. Calling for pilots to rally around Bartels because he's NOT someone else is as dumb as saying we should rally around Moak/O'Malley/Roberts/Donatelli/Malone because they aren't someone else. This isn't 2007, with its existential threats. It's 2017, with a new set of threats and priorities.

Bartels deserves a fair shot because he won the election. He deserves to be judged on his results because he knows that's part of the deal. Same goes for our LEC reps. If they screw the pooch, they know they're accountable to us.

Circling back to the C44 recall effort, it doesn't appear to be based upon any specific malfeasance or behavior. That's bad.

I disagree. The company is not a democratic organization. We don't vote on hats, D-0, fleet plans, or fuel hedges. We wear our collective heart on our sleeve, with our warts and scars visible to all. It's in the company's interest to know our vector.

With LEC elections held every year, and the most-recent MEC election being determined by 1 vote, any alleged "laughter" is probably based more on uncertainty than preference.

This must be bait. But, I'll bite anyway.


What's NWA bravado? And how does it get to be at its best?

Not saying that at all re "new guard" vs "old guard." You've answered the question with the first & last statements I quoted.

While I suppose it's obvious which side I'm on, I told Jimmy directly at the meeting that even if I thought he (& Chris) was the worst rep ever, I would still vote against the recall because it's an improper exercise of a very important membership check on reps. That opinion was solidified with recall motions utterly lacking in substance.

Got it. Somehow I read that thought into your post. My bad.

I agree with you. You were there, and if you didn't hear anything approaching abuse of office, it's a dumb move to recall them.

Thanks again.

He doesn't know. He's young/impressionable and wait for it.... from ATL.

If it wasn't for that darn NWA bravado, its pilots, aircraft and money...I know you would be so much better off. Get over yourself, and stop trying to start a civil war. Jeeze

Anyone able to relay what RM's wife is saying on Facebook? That's a critical piece of this conversation that is clearly missing.

Wow, did I accidentally stumble into the regional pages? Talk about airing your dirty laundry in public!

I think those super tight coats and those hats may be cutting of circulation to your brains.

If he was young he wouldn't be bringing up such an old issue.

NWA vs. Delta? My God! Next year it will be 10 years since the merger was announced.

Anyone who brings up differences in the groups must be a dinosaur. :D

I'm still fuming over the Northeast merger. 😉

I'll take back NWA bravado. Replace it with BB/Strong 12 style tactics. Very militant, very skeptical, yields little results in the way of gains. Poggi, Kern and Johnson are in this camp.

Meanwhile you have John Malone, and the CA Reps who have a proven track record of success. These are the type of reps I desire in 44. Not Bartel Cartel Storm Troopers.

Bartel Cartel. Did you spend long coming up with it? Why always the name calling? I don't get that. Make your point without coming up with some clever little name. Remember the Crazy 8? They were vindicated by the way. Take a peek at your retro check to confirm my assertion. The 12 moved the ball as much or more than the others. They need not be "crazy" or "disciples" or "cartels" or a "cabal". Maybe they're more like the rest of us than they are different from us. Geesh

weird, i view those 3 you listed to be some of the best reps we have.

When I got hired, Northwest was a mashup of guy & gals hired by North Central, Southern, Hughes Air West, Republic, and Northwest pre merger (red book), and Northwest post merger (blue book).

Besides the post 1986 merger pilots, the only ones I never heard complain were the Hughes Air West guys. They we happy go lucky and an absolute blast to fly with.


I don't understand why Trip seems to think NWA guys are so bad. I'm pretty cool (I think. :) )

I'll have to find out. :D

Trip,


When did you get hired and how did the merger affect you?

Speaking of track records? How long have you been following B. Bartells union work and did what he did ever effect you negatively?