I am debating whether to go to envoy or endeavor. I live in DFW. I've read that the schedules at Envoy are brutal and the pay is sub par, even with the bonus. How are the commutes out of DFW for Endeavor bases? Are there commutable lines I could hold as a junior FO?

 

With the growth we're suppose to have you should be able to hold a decent line before too long.

The new commuter clause will help as well. 2nd flight is positive space.

DFW guys have said the commute to ATL is hard. Too many senior Delta commuters. You'd be better off going to NYC.

 

I've heard of folks doing DAL LGA decently well when VX flew the Bus on those routes. Honestly though, you can't beat living in base and Envoy is a good company.

Avoid DFW-ATL at all costs.

 

You will regret not having gone to envoy after commuting for 6 months

 

I know you're not supposed to pick where you go based on a flow, but when you can have a flow AND live in base....

Don't get me wrong: Endeavor is a good place to be, the DFW-NYC commute shouldn't be too bad, and you should be able to have a line pretty quickly (though getting one that's commutable on both ends will be more difficult), but unless you really need the extra money I'd be inclined to go with Envoy.

 

It's a toss up if you're just starting out. Depends if you need/want money now then figure out the rest later, or if you can do with less starting out and be guaranteed a high paying job after a few years. We will have the best pay in the regional industry (at least for the time being), but absolutely no career progression. Don't drink the DGI koolaid, it's not career progression.
What I don't understand is why people knock the flow at AAG or say it should only be a "backup plan". You do realize, that the major airlines still have plenty of applicants to choose from (if they didn't, everyone would get a job offer then the training department would sort it out like it's done at the regionals), and will continue to do so for the time being, and there is a good chance of not getting called by anyone or even passing the interview if you do. At minimum you will have to do an interview prep course if you do get a call and want to stand a chance. Talk to all the senior guys here that can't even get a call from a major and got told NO by Delta, if you think you're so special that everyone wants to hire you because everyone got a trophy in school. It doesn't work that way in the real world, and the flow could potentially make the difference between you spending this career rolling in dough or living paycheck to paycheck. Endeavor is a good place to work and if you want to make sure you get paid pretty good for now with no bonus gimmicks this is the place to be. But if you want to assure your future at a mainline, I think Envoy would be the place. And from the looks of it, they'll have to match or exceed our pay soonish as well.

 

As others have said, the new positive space second attempt commuting benefit makes Endeavor a more viable option than it was previously. I flew with a captain the other day who commutes from DFW to LGA and he said it's a decent commute. Lots of options but lots of competition (and forget ATL, since delta used to have a hub in DFW). With the second attempt positive space, key to a good qol commuting to endeavor would be ability to hold commutable lines (endeavor has 25 hour 5 day commutable trips...start late end early). Easy to hold these after 9 months on the fo seniority list while also getting 16-20 days off, but it might take 7-10 years to get to an equivalent seniority level on the captain list (though anything could happen in 2 years when it's time to upgrade).

One thing to consider about Envoy is where you'll be based coming out of training. I have heard that they have a long new hire seat lock and if you get the 700, you're stuck commuting to ORD for a long time, and that's probably an awful commute being hub to hub. I wouldn't pass up envoy if they the chance of getting a DFW base was strong...I'm just not sure how bad their schedules are. If you're going to only have 11-12 days off a month and only credit 75 hours, commuting to endeavor for 16-20 days off (as an FO) might be better than being based in Dallas.

 

What he said....

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What about around Syracuse, NY and starting with Endeavor? I'd like DTW but realize NYC will likely be the starting point. Thoughts?

 

Excellent choice! We operate numerous flights from SYR to both NYC airports (including on the 900, where you can access 2 jump seats) and there are plenty of chances for overnights in SYR. PM me and I can show you some examples. Looking at commutes to DTW it seems they're done by other DCI carriers/mainline.