JulesWinfield

While I understand your perspective, surely you understand the difference between a sub contractor and an employee?

theUpsideDown

Firstly idc about random people on the internet. Really, not rooting against you either. Just. Don't. Care.

In fairness to my point, I'm thinking more about the dozens (which I extrapolate to thousand plus) I flew with and am comfortable saying they'd fit in fine here at delta with little effort.

Theres a learning curve like anything else, but there ain't nothing pilots do over here that 80% or better of edv pilots can't do too.

Should be 80% or better success rate.

Mesabah

The irony of this post is that CBreezy is a Delta pilot already, and senior to you.

theUpsideDown

I can never keep track of what guys are where.

Again, random internet people. Don't care.

Baradium

No, my argument is that Delta has no obligation to hire pilots from Endeavor or any other affiliate carrier to fly for mainline but that they also are not permitted to fire an employee in good standing at said carrier because they decided they did not want to hire a pilot to fly at mainline. There's more to being a pilot than being safe, not being hired doesn't necessarily mean they are saying you are unsafe. Delta also didn't hire all of the Endeavor pilots directly, meeting the old NWA RJ carrier standards doesn't automatically mean that Delta views you as meeting their standards.

Your entire argument is a false equivalency. Delta cannot simply fire a pilot without cause because they decided not to hire that pilot to fly for the mainline operation. That is what is not legal.

By your argument a SkyWest pilot is entitled to be hired at every mainline carrier.

Baradium

I don't have an argument with the above, I feel that a LOT of great pilots have been told no. But I feel that is different from the implication that Delta has an obligation to hire or that it is a factor that Delta doesn't then try to fire pilots that are told no.

Mesabah

This is a simple answer, the SSP/DGI folks are compared to OTS hires at point in time. That's why some really great pilots don't get it, and some head scratchers do. There is a MASSIVE element of luck in the SSP/DGI, you have to have the right timing in addition to preparation. Delta has told us a thousand times the process isn't fair, and it's not designed to be fair, that's where the complaint comes from.

Baradium

I know this is a popular narrative, but the people I've talked to who previously did the interviews strongly denied this is the case. One did say that some of the initial group that went through were disrespectful or otherwise left a bad taste in the mouths of some of the interviewers, but he said they didn't want to hold it against the whole group (although as they are human I could see that they could be inclined to not be as lenient if they saw what they thought were similar actions). He did say the process was heavily weighted to try to avoid letting bad apples slip through and he agreed a lot of great people get told no getting caught up in it, which is the reason for second chances.

Blueskies21

I've long heard the rumors that the first group of guys on the SSP went rather unprepared because they thought it was a handshake deal.

I've always thought that was likely a bit of revisionist history; enter a Delta pilot I met recently. He was one of the first guys to go on the SSP in 2013. As he told it, some of the first guys went with very little preparation in bad suits using their beat up flight kits (remember when we had paper charts??) as their briefcases for the interview. Evidently he spent a lot of time prepping and studying (before RST was a thing, so studying meant trying to find your own gouge and study material based on what Delta tells you to study) and couldn't believe that others took it so lightly. He got hired and has been at Delta for 6 years now, many others didn't get hired.

I thought those rumors of guys going unprepared were unsubstantiated but this guy had no reason to lie to me about ancient history when he's got the job, so at least some of the original guys did go completely unprepared. I suspect that left a bad taste in the interviewer's mouths for awhile afterward.

Blueskies21

The truth of the matter is, for better or worse, your success depends on your interview. A great guy who's a Check Airman and a great pilot? Maybe he really put his foot in his mouth in the interview. A terrible guy and a terrible pilot? Maybe he interviews really well and runs a homeless shelter on his days off.

You really just don't know.

The unfortunate reality is until we get something else, flow-ish, there's always going to be an element of luck to the interview.

That said, you can absolutely get better at interviewing with practice, use Emerald Coast, Cage Marshall, your buddies, your spouse, etc. People who can tell you whether what you've just said sounds hire-able or not when you practice your stories with them.

All of that said, I do think the DGI gives some people hope where there is none. If you have several failed checkrides, a terrible academic record, violations, accidents etc, Delta will interview them on the DGI because they're obligated to, but I don't think that Delta is likely to hire someone with that background. At the end of the day the DGI are measured against the off the street candidates and no one gets an off the street interview with a 2.0 GPA, so that's not something the interviewers are used to seeing and likely to overlook. There are some going on the DGI that don't really have a chance at Delta under the current model and we're probably doing those people a disservice by giving them the false hope of the DGI. I don't know how we solve that other than some sort of flow-ish.