No surprise Endeavor Air
09-19-2013, 01:29 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: Up Front
Posts: 1,628
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
I don't pop my head much in these kinds of threads anymore, but just to keep it factual 9E didn't lose anything until of recent the 16 ATL -900s and now a couple -200s to Kingman. But even prior to that, Colgan was all gone and so were the XJ Saabs. That's just factual and the reason I said 9E deserves their seats. But none of that matters, all that matters is the principle of it. The written award is quite clear: cannot be awarded or displaced unless 541 and 100 9E/XJ Captains on the -200s. So the first 641 Captains have to be those two airlines, and if there are 641 or less positions, then that means every single Colgan pilot should be downgraded even if they are more "senior" on the list. Same with the -900 279/95 ratio. The first 374 should be XJ/9E Captains and if above that then in seniority order. But, I'm sure 9L reps are going to pull the career expectation card and do whatever they can to make sure they maintain their CAs in the left seats of RJs. Just do a factual check yourself though, and you will find that even the most bottom barrel original 9E Captain was hired in 2006. No 9E Captains in 2007. In comparison XJ has quite a few CAs hired in 2007 and Colgan has plenty of CAs hired in 2007 and 2008. But you are right, this isn't my fight so carry on.........
But, it doesn't matter "whose" airframes go away. We are all one big stinking pile now.
DOH has nothing to do with anything in this heaping steaming pile. Never did.
Nobody deserves anything.
09-19-2013, 02:14 PM
#22
that one time
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by Avroman
Excuse me for seeing this mess coming.
It was more to show that we are in a perpetual fight with each other and the companies love it. The union failed us a couple years back. I was there and saw it first hand. (And spoke out against it. (showing my hand a bit)) They would not listen to a different view, only national. IMO. But here we are, still blaming (maybe not you) the other "former" groups. This was a leadership issue and always will be until the angry 10% take a stand.
The sheep will always flock.
09-19-2013, 02:54 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 239
The whole mess is going to go down in history of one of the most painful acquisition, merger, bankruptcy, realignments of recent memory. The indications were obvious given the way our CBA, seniority integration and realignment were shotgunned at us. As the saying goes, "the road to ruin is paved with good intentions". If anyone has learned anything going forward, I hope that in the future, pilots realize the need for professional negotiators and people that have an understanding of accounting and finance.
09-21-2013, 06:20 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 471
"The express pilots have failed to manage their union. Not a single MEC Chairman called for an Executive Board to stop ratification, not a single MEC Chair called for an Executive Board Meeting to review the President's actions. Not a single Status Rep brought forward a resolution to direct their MEC. Not a single pilot brought forward any resolutions on the matter at the LEC ... and no one has been recalled.
In contrast, the express MEC Chairman gathered to sign a letter of mutual support stating they are not going to do what just happened at Pinnacle and then was repeated at PSA.
I've pointed to the tools in the Admin Manual which exist to prevent these bargaining failures. The response from some of your smartest express guys has been to complain that they will not waste their time taking action. OK ... well at least get on the record as having been right, recall your Reps if they are truly "bought."
There is nothing I can do to help you if you will not help yourselves. Your Reps, officially, signed a letter affirming ALPA's bargaining just a few weeks ago. They have spoken for you.
So, in the absence of any demonstrated interest in managing your union, we might as well learn every thing we can from President Moak's strategy and get on board. President Moak is wagering that if your MECs can survive this current economic downturn that the market for pilots will drive a correction as the supply dries up. His plan to fix the longevity problem is a system of flow throughs.
There are rumors of mainline being forced to insource express flying as economics and pilot supply collide. That may be where this is going, but, I am not yet that optimistic. For starters express MECs (who can't even raise an objection to Pinnacle bargaining) raise all unholy hell when mainline groups talk staples (although a double staple, or giving express pilots mainline numbers they can use to bid into a position when they desire seems to work)
In summation, my web board rants are useless if not a single person at an express carrier will pick up and use the tools I have outlined. The Pinnacle contract is in the history books now. Might as well be pragmatic and look forward for new opportunities. "
Thought it may be prudent to repost this from Bucking Bar.
In contrast, the express MEC Chairman gathered to sign a letter of mutual support stating they are not going to do what just happened at Pinnacle and then was repeated at PSA.
I've pointed to the tools in the Admin Manual which exist to prevent these bargaining failures. The response from some of your smartest express guys has been to complain that they will not waste their time taking action. OK ... well at least get on the record as having been right, recall your Reps if they are truly "bought."
There is nothing I can do to help you if you will not help yourselves. Your Reps, officially, signed a letter affirming ALPA's bargaining just a few weeks ago. They have spoken for you.
So, in the absence of any demonstrated interest in managing your union, we might as well learn every thing we can from President Moak's strategy and get on board. President Moak is wagering that if your MECs can survive this current economic downturn that the market for pilots will drive a correction as the supply dries up. His plan to fix the longevity problem is a system of flow throughs.
There are rumors of mainline being forced to insource express flying as economics and pilot supply collide. That may be where this is going, but, I am not yet that optimistic. For starters express MECs (who can't even raise an objection to Pinnacle bargaining) raise all unholy hell when mainline groups talk staples (although a double staple, or giving express pilots mainline numbers they can use to bid into a position when they desire seems to work)
In summation, my web board rants are useless if not a single person at an express carrier will pick up and use the tools I have outlined. The Pinnacle contract is in the history books now. Might as well be pragmatic and look forward for new opportunities. "
Thought it may be prudent to repost this from Bucking Bar.
09-24-2013, 02:34 PM
#27
Property of Scheduling
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,525
....was somebody "day drinking" a day early?
So much anticipation to anger.... We should have a reality series, it would be quite a hit.
Call it "end up". Based on real life career expectations!
So much anticipation to anger.... We should have a reality series, it would be quite a hit.
Call it "end up". Based on real life career expectations!
09-24-2013, 03:48 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,648
Originally Posted by higney85
Just so it's clear... I'm only trying to lighten the mood as I have a feeling tomorrow night will see many rocks thrown around the glass houses.
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