Somehow, I didn't realize forced upgrades were starting at the bottom of the seniority list of upgrade eligible FO's and then working up the seniority list until the airline has what they need, so thanks for this.

 

Okay, I'll give you some current data if it makes you feel better. Please understand that things are changing unbelievable fast around here. This data will look completely different after the latest bid closes tomorrow and is processed. And things will look completely different in a few months after that, and so on... I know you're wondering how thing will look in 1.5-2 years, but you could take a guess on how senior each base will be that far out from now and your guess would be just as good as ours. But again, if it makes you feel better, the current stats for seniority per base/equipment (valid for a few more days) is:

Most Jr DFW 175 FO: 10/2017
Most Jr DFW 145 FO: 05/2017

Most Jr DFW 175 CA: 01/2016
Most Jr DFW 145 CA: 12/2016

So there it is, the current snapshot. But you simply cannot use these numbers to make any kind of guess on how things will look 2 years from now. There is far too much change ahead and variables. For example, you might say "Hey DFW 175 FO is pretty junior". Yeah, well that was probably the last new hire class that went directly into that status that we'll see for a very long time. So each month it will keep getting more senior and more senior. Then you have the forced upgrades throwing a huge curveball into the seniority. Then you're gonna have more and more senior FOs displacing into different equipment and bumping junior guys out. So on and so forth. But anyway, those are the current numbers. Just know that they are completely useless figures for trying to make any determination for anything as far out as you're looking. The only semi educated guess you can make is that DFW will remain to be the senior base. How senior, that's the unknown.

 

Great info.

1. Which CA aircraft is better QOL. Assume live in Dallas. Is one a slave ship more than the other ? Etc ?
2. What is "real world" CA annual salary for new Captain ? Both airplane models ?

Thanks

 

I appreciate it and I understand completely. It seems crazy to be planning this far out given how dynamic things are & will be, but target airline ties to a cadet program (including seniority in training for base/equipment) & first flying job and then that ties to where (school) & how (61 or 141) I finish training & pay for training. Bottom line: Envoy’s cadet program will really help in several ways and - if I’m accepted into that - then things get pretty simple pretty quick in all likelihood & I’ll take the rest however it comes.

 

1. I'd say both are about the same. The biggest difference is more legs, shorter flights on the 145. Days off are roughly the same I believe. If you like longer legs and doing fewer per day, 175 is better.

2. They pay rates are the exact same for both aircraft. This website doesn't really reflect that. You're paid based on your seniority which boils down to getting 145 pay until you're extremely senior (like getting close to flow senior) then you move up to CR7/175 pay. Regardless of what you actually fly. So figure for a new CA $67/hr at 75 hours a month of RSV pay. If you wanna figure per diem, it's $1.90/hr tax free at 200-300 hrs a month. That will give you you're base pay. Beyond that, you can pick up OT on 3 of your days off while on RSV. That's paid at 150% or 200% if they're short. But...getting awarded OT is based on seniority. There isn't much OT to be found on the 145 in general and there's not a ton that a junior CA on the 175 is able to get either. I'd say, figure maybe an additional $1k a month if you pick up OT and get lucky enough to actually score some OT if you're super junior. But keep in mind, year 2 CA at Envoy makes $67/hour. A year 2 FO at EDV is making $60ish/hr and the Republic TA is rumored to be even higher. A year 2 CA at EDV is making over $90/hr and Republic CA pay will probably be somewhere closer to that ballpark as well. Republic's TA details will be public Monday. Keep those rates in mind. They are not insignificant.