Originally Posted by Azorian

Anyway, back on topic:

everybody hired prior to today would be upgrading on top of the forced upgrade "HVAs", would take probably 3+ years to get them all upgraded, ergo, it would theoretically be 3+ years before someone in my shoes had any QOL (weekly commuting to and from ORD, LGA, reserve shift etc)

I make mid-senior fedex captain money doing what i do now in my non flying job, QOL is total garbage, im talking 100+ days in a row on a contract with no time built in for visiting home. Personally, I'd rather be flying again.

If i go sit reserve as a CA and can get 1,000 hours turbine PIC in 12-18 months and move on to something else, I'll do it... but im not going to bunk in a crash pad in LGA for the next 2 years while 2 or 3 hours a week get tossed at me. not even for a $40K +/- sign on bonus.

Originally Posted by Boris Badenov

A scab is someone who crosses a picket line to perform struck work. Full stop. A scab is not whoever you don't like. Words mean stuff.

Originally Posted by 1704LIFE

You hit the nail on the head man. They call it High Value Aviator, but it’s more like crap-duty bonus.

Get paid to scab, pretty much.

If it wasn’t for people willing to scab we would be in an excellent position to raise our pilot pay rates. Wouldn’t that be better than a measly bonus for some

Originally Posted by Weekendwarrior2

The HVA guys/gals aren't scabs...that's just ridiculous. The HVA's are going to end up getting screwed by being eternally forced on to reserve as the current pilots on property start hitting their hours. The biggest thing this pilot group can do right now is to steer people away from this HVA BS at all costs. Management has surplus of FO's on property. They are reducing hiring classes to ~30 with a focus on 1,000 hr 121 guys. They need to feel to hurt in the hiring numbers, and hopefully word is finally starting to get out about how the HVA's will end up being forced to LGA/ORD with low QOL. It does them no benefit to hire zero time 121 guys right now because their immediate need is finding qualified FOs for upgrade. Blame the union all you want, but at the end of the day management doesn't seem to give a ******* about the rest of the pilot group once they have them on property and it seems like our hands are tied until there is a drastic reduction in filling new hire classes with qualified CA candidates.

Originally Posted by AcesHigh

This, and exactly what I was saying in my thread in regards to my HVA post 2 weeks back.

The bonus's are nice in the beginning, it's kinda like you getting to bone a real hot girl to find out she has herpres and now you have it too(reserve).

Yea all is good and dandy, not a flare in sight,you move a few spots up, then people senior to you upgrade and then it's ugly head flares up again and you get kicked back down again.

Feel the burn....


Not speaking from experience.

Originally Posted by Azorian

hahahaha nice way of putting it.

Frankly, i am sick and tired of busting rocks in the hot sunshine for 98 hours a week, getting one day at home to every 90 on the road. So what the hell... i've stayed in plenty of crap motels for months - so if im told to go to LGA to fly a jet 30 hours a month fine whatever

Originally Posted by Azorian

Interviewed a few days ago, prior 121 experience, enjoyed the process.

Let me see if i understand this correctly

Envoy is FO heavy, so upgrades are being forced on guys the minute they hit 1000 hrs SIC regardless of seniority

I was told in my interview process quite clearly, that i would be hired as an FO and pretty much immediately be bumped to captain once i hit the line... ok fine

But... it occurs to me that there are several hundred FOs who will be senior to me throughout my time at Envoy should i accept the job. assuming even half of them upgrade on the same equipment, the majority of my career at Envoy will be one of constantly taking a few steps forward on seniority list, then taking one or two steps back as FOs upgrade. thereby prolonging the amount of time i am on reserve, crap schedule, not my preferred crew base etc.

At the current rate, im assuming all of the FOs who are senior to me will have upgraded (any base any equipment) or resigned etc within the next couple of years. obviously they are not ALL going to upgrade to same equipment as me or same base. so i dont think i will be constantly getting bumped from the CA Seniority spot i'd eventually hold, but it would be something that would happen frequently. climb 12 spots this month, drop 10 next month for example

my concern is, i dont want to get stuck sitting reserve for ages. but as long as 95% of the FO seniority list is Senior to the most junior captain, whoever that most junior captain is, is going to be riding ***** for a long time.

i guess the question is, how long is "a long time"?

Is Envoy losing pilots from the top of the list at a rate that a new hire in class today could be in preferred base and at least a line holder within 6-12 months - even if he was forced upgrade from day one?

just looking for insight before i accept a class date for sure.

thanks

Originally Posted by Inop2

Azorian- you have your answer. Every HVA candidate should read this before committing. (except for the BS on the meaning of scab. This group is like the dudes in The Wolf of Wallstreet. Jordan Belford is trying to explain a new pitch to make money and his boys get all caught up in some inconsequential comment.) Just gear up and prepare yourself mentally for sitting reserve. As you may remember, what wears on you over time is coming in on your day off; because your shift starts at 4am. Paying for a hotel room(4 free ones gone in a week), expensive airport food, sitting in a hotel room staring at the walls, sitting on your last day hoping crew scheduling will release you early so you can make a flight home and often denied to sit longer.

Unfortunately this nightmare starts again too soon because you only get 2 days off between reserve sits.

Originally Posted by Azorian

My current job is - phone rings, we need you for a long term project in Newark, NJ; you have to be there within 48 hours & pay your own hotel (so it will be a cheap section 8 POS) plan on being on job site for the next 4 months, 14 hour days, six days a week, Sundays off.

that said, it pays out the wazoo, but there are no work rules preventing me from being moved to Cleveland (or wherever) the day i am released from Newark. where again, i will be staying at an extended stay hotel, and stay there for 3-4 months, 14 hour days, Sundays off. I spent the first 120 days of 2017 on the road without seeing my wife or kids, or home, or sleep in my own bed.

that said, i think i can handle a crash pad a few nights out of every week. and if im in ORD, or LGA, i may as well be sitting ready, because its not like i can sit in my own home. and im sure not going to uproot my whole family to the murder capital of the USA. lol

if i sit reserve for an extended period of time, and end up with a flow... even if that takes 7 years, thats fine.

will another crew base be opened up? dunno

will more 175s be brought on property? that means more captains and FOs needed in two bases.

ive been in and out of this industry for 20 years... it is a fickle SOB and if ive learned anything its that everything can change in any given week