Interviewed a few days ago, prior 121 experience, enjoyed the process.

Let me see if i understand this correctly

Envoy is FO heavy, so upgrades are being forced on guys the minute they hit 1000 hrs SIC regardless of seniority

I was told in my interview process quite clearly, that i would be hired as an FO and pretty much immediately be bumped to captain once i hit the line... ok fine

But... it occurs to me that there are several hundred FOs who will be senior to me throughout my time at Envoy should i accept the job. assuming even half of them upgrade on the same equipment, the majority of my career at Envoy will be one of constantly taking a few steps forward on seniority list, then taking one or two steps back as FOs upgrade. thereby prolonging the amount of time i am on reserve, crap schedule, not my preferred crew base etc.

At the current rate, im assuming all of the FOs who are senior to me will have upgraded (any base any equipment) or resigned etc within the next couple of years. obviously they are not ALL going to upgrade to same equipment as me or same base. so i dont think i will be constantly getting bumped from the CA Seniority spot i'd eventually hold, but it would be something that would happen frequently. climb 12 spots this month, drop 10 next month for example

my concern is, i dont want to get stuck sitting reserve for ages. but as long as 95% of the FO seniority list is Senior to the most junior captain, whoever that most junior captain is, is going to be riding ***** for a long time.

i guess the question is, how long is "a long time"?

Is Envoy losing pilots from the top of the list at a rate that a new hire in class today could be in preferred base and at least a line holder within 6-12 months - even if he was forced upgrade from day one?

just looking for insight before i accept a class date for sure.

thanks

 

Man, those kinds of questions are really hard to answer but your understanding of the situation is essentially correct.

Just off the cuff guess from me:

If you’re “preferred” base is LGA or ORD, then I’d say a the base is likely but I don’t think you’ll be a line holder at 12 months. If your preferred base is DFW or MIA, I don’t think you’ll hold your base yet at that point. There were a lot of FOs hired in the last year/year and half that have yet to hit that 1000 hour point and they’ll all be senior to you. In fact, I think as the company expands you may be looking at more of a 10 steps forward this month, 12 steps back next month for the next year or so.

 

You hit the nail on the head man. They call it High Value Aviator, but it’s more like crap-duty bonus.

Get paid to scab, pretty much.

If it wasn’t for people willing to scab we would be in an excellent position to raise our pilot pay rates. Wouldn’t that be better than a measly bonus for some

 

during the Koolaid hour at the beginning of the interview, the guy gave what i think was for the most part a good honest spiel.

he seemed to think that anyone hired into LGA could successfully bid MIA or DFW within 4-6 months, which may be true for a new hire FO.

however my situation is a bit different, id be a new hire FO who was forced left seat immediately after class. I would think it would be considerably longer for me to successfully bid to DFW since i already live in Dallas.

but once i got there i'd be low man on the totem pole for a very long time. (2 years plus i would think)

 

Look at it this way man, I’m going for DFW too and I’ll be upgrading in about 3-4 months. Many of my buddies as well, you’ll be behind all of us. So you will probably take a trip to LGA, then jump to Chicago, then mayyyybe DFW.

If I was in your shoes I wouldn’t want to take the long road home.

And we are talking standby reserve man. I wouldn’t do it.

 

how many hours a month are reserve guys flying?

 

I will ask a friend who is reserve in LGA.

 

Did you really use the term scab to describe a person who rightfully takes an upgrade when he/she's the next person on the only legal list to upgrade?

Do some research before you start throwing that word around.

 

Think about it, it is a scab position. Sure they are here permanently, I get that. But the reason for the HVA program is to hold up the Captain spots until the traditional new-hires hit upgrade.

Duh

 

i dont think you meant the term derogatorily to me personally.

i see where hes coming from, i dont consider it being a "scab". if you were on strike and they were offering me a bonus to come fly while shooting you the middle finger id agree.

im just a dude doing my homework. would love to fly part 121 again, but at the same time, i dont want to be in reserve in LGA until 2020