Inop2

Passing along what appears to be a great alternative for Envoy FO’s on the west coast concerned about the forced upgrade and subsequent long commute to LGA to be a captain. From my understanding Horizon Air is offering the 175, a nice sign on bonus and a 3 year flow to Alaska Airlines. A real flow. In the interview you meet with the Horizon folks than interview with an Alaska Airlines representative for approval and your seniority number at Alaska. It’s a 3 year flow. There’s some great guys here that have an uncertain future at Envoy and this sounds worth further investigation. If anyone goes through the process please post details.

UncreativeUser

Honestly who cares about a flow anyways people have been complaining about it just apply then


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Inop2

The 3 year flow at Horizon looks like a great deal but look into the details and please advise. The response indicates...Envoys flow is pretty dead for anyone looking at Envoy now or hired in the last several months or so but getting in early at Horizon should pay dividends

jshoneycutt

Horizon to Alaska: 3 years
GoJet to Spirit: 2 years
CommutAir to United: 3 years
PSA and Piedmont even say they’ve got Envoy beat.

If flow is in your equation for prospective airlines, I believe Envoy is in the best position to keep a sustainable flow. Only thing is, management needs to make a firm commitment to the flow.

All these other airlines you need to ask yourself what does any company look like whose workforce turns over in 2-4 years? Especially an airline. What happens when your captains have less jet time than piston time? Do you suppose you are walking into your regional airline at the peak of your aviator abilities, or that you yet have a LOT to learn? Who do you want to leave from? captains who upgraded at 1,000 hrs, or captains who spent at least 2-3 years first learning from experienced captains? Yeah, it’s all about getting seniority at a legacy... but don’t get so excited to find the magic formula to beat the system.

UncreativeUser

Right that’s why I’m not taking it into consideration any more. I believe that Envoy still isn’t a bad place to work giving that upgrade times are very short (horizons are 2-2.5 years) and they have a guaranteed interview program which is probably just as worthless as Endeavors.

I think all the flow/guaranteed programs are just there to get a MASSIVE amount of pilots to their perspective legacies so that the legacies are in control of how many people they want to an exact amount. Basically like picking out candy in a candy store.

So, unless this is wrong thinking, I’ve been looking at regional airlines based off of their base locations, pay, and upgrade time. Unless that is flawed thinking for someone that’s looking to apply for a regional soon?


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Jamesthunder

If anything this is great news for us. If other airlines have flow times, suddenly our nine year flow isn't the best on the block anymore.

Otterbox

Horizon offers a garaunteed interview to Alaska, not a no interview flow through. There are probably other strings attached.
GoJet offers an interview with Spirit and a transition with some strings attached.
CommutAir CPP involves both the Hogan and a United interview and then a final review prior to going to United... all three are major hurdles that stop the progress for folks.

No airlines outside of the AA Wholly Owned currently offer no interview flow through agreements. As for length that always seems to turn into a cripple fight so needless to say all of the flows at the AA Wholly Owned regionals are long enough that every pilot should have their apps out to the majors and only be using the flow as a backup career plan.

SilentLurker

Wrong about Horizon. FOR CURRENT aspirants and NH’s the Horizon interview is done in conjunction with , or as the Alaska Airline interview. You are correct for those on property at Horizon who did not do the interview with Alaska segment, they will be granted a separate interview with Alaska. At least that’s how it’s been for a while. Except CEO Tilden at Alaska is finally opening the doors to Horizon. Go read back on the Horizon threads, high pass rate. No stiff-arming.

Interviews are great, you can weed out bad apples and asshead future captains. Nobody wants to fly a 4 day trip with “in-personable poor characters”. The flying part is easy. Interviews are great. Personality test even better, Riddle guys hate those, and often sound entitled to a mainline job.

Edited: Horizon-Alaska seems now to be a true flow, and a much quicker flow projection than Envoy. Horizon’s pilot group is much smaller than Envoys, and with perhaps an equal number of lifers. Flow projection gives the advantage to Horizon as a clear winner for industry flow. But it new so we’ll have to see how it develops.

Otterbox

Funny, it’s only listed as an interview program on their website, not a guaranteed flow through, and gives no additional information about this program.
So what happens to the folks that fail the Alaska interview?

Everyone likes to use the term flow to bait applicants to coming on property but once again, the only regionals with no-interview flow throughs are the American Airlines Wholly Owned Regionals.

SilentLurker

It’s not hard. It’s just one or two addition process at CommutAir /AirWisconsin with the CPP. Hogan Test is done well before you start class, but then the interview right after training is completed. I believe that’s how it works for Air Wisconsin also.

If you fail the Hogan/score low, don’t go to Class. Call and say no thanks. From what I’ve read and spoken to a mentor their about, the Hogan Test is the maker or breaker. The United CPP interview after training is more of a face to face/HR deal than full blown interview. Overall if Hogan is good, the United interview has a high pass rate. If u fail or do badly on Hogan, you can retake it & also the United Interview months later. Large majority are successful first time. Some fail Hogan and pass it later. Seem easy overall. Sounds harder than it really is. Process weeds certain people out (those who fear applying themselves).

Also overall pay (first year & CA) pay rates at Horizon, Commutair, AirWisconsin, Republic, Endeavor, are far better than overall pay rates and compensation plan, soft pay, and QOL, than AA WO). The other carriers have caught up.

“Guaranteed Job at American” is NOT guaranteed. After the Protected Pilots flow, THE REST of us do not have the same flow protections they do.

This is not being discussed. It should.