Well give them hotel rooms as well. Basically a TDY

 

Envoy knows that if they mess with the flow the resignations would be unbearable. I seriously doubt they are willing to play with fire. They rather junior man you than mess with the flow.

 

Unfortunately the negotiations have yielded low ball offers as far as reserve goes. It would help to lock in some long call and an opportunity for A passes for reserves commute to work. It would make for better recruiting carrots. Money doesn’t seem to be the answer that many have hoped would be for solving this Captain puzzle. Also, doesn’t help we ran out all the low value aviators during bankruptcy negotiations.

 

What are you smoking? Money is the answer, in pay rates and not in form of a bonus in addition to better reserve rules.

Street CA’s aren’t coming here because they can get better money elsewhere.

 

Not true. Clearly you don’t know who we are hiring. Many are prior 121 who left for corporate who are now trying to kick start their legacy carrier after many years of no interview offers. They are leaving good paying jobs to take a pay cut and work here. There are some FO laterals too, but not as many as you think. QOL and Flow are most important here and now

 

My inside sources indicate that while it is true that a number of HVA's have shown up, there just aren't enough when projecting out through the summer. AAG continues to want to add flying at Envoy and the numbers do not work. In other words, critical mass will be reached very soon thus the vacation cancellations per contract and a temporary halt to the flow for the months of June and July, also per the contract (operational necessity), will likely be announced in the coming weeks.

Also, I read above that AA has no slowdown of classes. That is also true. The problem is on the Envoy side where the shortage of Captain's has reached a critical level, especially when taking the summer flying schedule into consideration.

 

I’m sure we are only getting those guys currently. The reason why we aren’t getting more Expressjet, tsa, and other disgruntleds is that they can’t justify coming here and making less if they are “good enough” to get hired at a higher paying place. Example: if Envoy went tits up tomorrow and you were resigned to commuting would you choose Mesa or endeavor? Ans: endeavor. And that’s why their classes are all full.
Our pay may not be matched yet because envoy knows there is a few months before open endeavor classes. Perhaps they figure some high value aviators may choose not to wait on a class and we can get them cheap

 

Well the writing on the wall has been clear for sometime now in regards to a shortage.

Envoy has had sufficient time to take the measures to mitigate the circumstances that they're currently in and they've currently shot themselves in the foot by not being proactive in the recruiting process.

Word gets around quick about what's going on around here so why would anyone in their right mind want to make a lateral move here when majors are hiring, ULCC's are hiring and thensome.

More and more people are jumping to the likes of Spirit due to their new contract and Frontier for the better pay amongst other things.

Pay/QOL is a MAJOR issue. We all know this. Flow is right up there too.

But watch more people catch on going to these other carriers, skipping Flow and getting to AA faster.

Somethings gotta give, and hopefully it comes sooner than later, especially for those who've been on property longer than me that still have 2-3 years before they flow.

 

I would personally expect that when this announcement is made, it would be highly stressed as temporary and only for op necessity. The stress on temporary would likely be mentioned several times. I would also expect something along the lines of a promise to catch back up later in the year perhaps.

 

Not to beat a dead horse any further into the ground, but I know for a fact that myself and a lot of other FOs in my position would be busting our butts to get into the left seat if it was something to be desired. The pay raise is a freakin pittance and QOL immediately tanks (for longer too), oh and now you're the one with the company and passengers breathing down your neck and everyone looks to you for the answers.

The way this company treats its pilots is such a joke. Good grief, the foreign pilot mill flight school that I used to work at was better than this. This type of management/operations relationship is NOT something you should see in a profession of this caliber. The only other time that I've been part of a work group that was treated like this was working on a factory floor building RVs. We really shouldn't put up with this.

I know "this job is a stepping stone" and "just get your time and get out", but that doesn't mean it has to be a ********y place to work. That's a stupid justification and is really just letting the heads off the hook when you say something like that. Look at Spirit. They just turned into a much bigger career destination than they used to be. You'd have more lifers, better recruits to select from, a happier work group, better experiences for the customer, etc, if life was improved here. That's how you grow a company; not with signing bonuses.

If this stepping stone becomes the slimiest one around, people will stop stepping on it.