CA Shortage Critical
04-24-2018, 05:20 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 260
Originally Posted by BIueSideUp
Not to beat a dead horse any further into the ground, but I know for a fact that myself and a lot of other FOs in my position would be busting our butts to get into the left seat if it was something to be desired. The pay raise is a freakin pittance and QOL immediately tanks (for longer too), oh and now you're the one with the company and passengers breathing down your neck and everyone looks to you for the answers.
The way this company treats its pilots is such a joke. Good grief, the foreign pilot mill flight school that I used to work at was better than this. This type of management/operations relationship is NOT something you should see in a profession of this caliber. The only other time that I've been part of a work group that was treated like this was working on a factory floor building RVs. We really shouldn't put up with this.
I know "this job is a stepping stone" and "just get your time and get out", but that doesn't mean it has to be a ********y place to work. That's a stupid justification and is really just letting the heads off the hook when you say something like that. Look at Spirit. They just turned into a much bigger career destination than they used to be. You'd have more lifers, better recruits to select from, a happier work group, better experiences for the customer, etc, if life was improved here. That's how you grow a company; not with signing bonuses.
If this stepping stone becomes the slimiest one around, people will stop stepping on it.
The way this company treats its pilots is such a joke. Good grief, the foreign pilot mill flight school that I used to work at was better than this. This type of management/operations relationship is NOT something you should see in a profession of this caliber. The only other time that I've been part of a work group that was treated like this was working on a factory floor building RVs. We really shouldn't put up with this.
I know "this job is a stepping stone" and "just get your time and get out", but that doesn't mean it has to be a ********y place to work. That's a stupid justification and is really just letting the heads off the hook when you say something like that. Look at Spirit. They just turned into a much bigger career destination than they used to be. You'd have more lifers, better recruits to select from, a happier work group, better experiences for the customer, etc, if life was improved here. That's how you grow a company; not with signing bonuses.
If this stepping stone becomes the slimiest one around, people will stop stepping on it.
04-24-2018, 05:26 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 101
Let's not forget that it was the company that put themselves in this position. I would argue that it can't be considered "operational necessity" when the company purposely ran out half the pilot group and put themselves in this mess. In the event that this actually happens, maybe it is finally our wake up call to band together.
04-24-2018, 05:43 AM
#25
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by gripngrab
HVA program not working. Word on the street is cancelled summer vacations and a short term suspension of the flow (June, July)
04-24-2018, 05:58 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 540
Originally Posted by highfarfast
I've been just this side of the fence regarding Spirit since their new contract. If Envoy cancels my summer vacation, I'll be going to Spirit as soon as they'll have me.
I'm not sure how long you've been at Envoy, but if you don't have apps out to all the majors and LCCs and actively pursuing options, you are doing yourself a disservice. Waiting on the flow at Envoy is like watching paint dry. Just think, if you had applied to Spirit one year ago and were hired, you would now have around 300 people junior to you and would be making $104/hour.
If you can't get in to Spirit, try Frontier. Why? Because they are like Spirit, only a year or a bit more behind. They will get a contract and it will be on par with Spirit. It might prove easier to get in with Frontier now when there is less competition as it was at Spirit a year or more ago. Now, you have to put your app against guys with high qualifications such as a lot of PIC and perhaps a checkairman or instructor position to boot.
04-24-2018, 06:51 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 540
Originally Posted by TransWorld
Can you share a couple of specific examples?
As an example, say the classes are 60/month all year. With the metering to 25, 60 Envoy pilots during this hypothetical year would be denied their flow and place on the AA seniority list.
As we all know, the airline pilot life is built on seniority. It's not good enough just to eventually make it to AA when hundreds of guys come off the street above you because Envoy managers decided to interpret the contract to their benefit and not yours.
04-24-2018, 07:33 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 311
Originally Posted by Bigpimppilot
I’m sure we are only getting those guys currently. The reason why we aren’t getting more Expressjet, tsa, and other disgruntleds is that they can’t justify coming here and making less if they are “good enough” to get hired at a higher paying place. Example: if Envoy went tits up tomorrow and you were resigned to commuting would you choose Mesa or endeavor? Ans: endeavor. And that’s why their classes are all full.
Our pay may not be matched yet because envoy knows there is a few months before open endeavor classes. Perhaps they figure some high value aviators may choose not to wait on a class and we can get them cheap
Our pay may not be matched yet because envoy knows there is a few months before open endeavor classes. Perhaps they figure some high value aviators may choose not to wait on a class and we can get them cheap
I’m tired of rampant speculation and tax advice from pilots and know nothings. Do you know something? If so lay it out there. Everyone knows already that I know nothing but I try not to give advice I know nothing about.
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