Originally Posted by Azorian

I've relegated myself to lurker status since i didnt take the Envoy gig and have been staying out of these threads since, but out of curiosity, how many HVAs you guys getting?

i passed up the HVA offer out of the fear that i would be obligating myself to long term Junior Manning in LGA or ORD. Been there, done that, not worth $100,000 bonus let alone $45,000 bonus.

I only butt into the conversation because surely enough HVA folks out there can do that math

Originally Posted by Cujo665

He looked us all in the face and swore they’d park planes if they had to. A few of us asked for it in writing in the CBA, didn’t happen, told the lawyers this would happen.

LCC’s aren't the only show in town anymore either. Check the ACMI’s.
Several like Atlas, Omni and Kalitta are better than LCC’s in my opinion. Atlas is in the middle of getting a new CBA and should make out very well.
Home basing
No ready reserve
No crashpads
Long call from home
Daily pay guarantee
Business class or better on International flights over 3 hours. Omni is currently the industry highest first year pay at $113 ph. First year pay - depending what equipment and program you go into - is $87k to $108k. Upgrade under 3 years. Top step $297 ph
Schedules are typically one long trip or two short ones. Last year average was 14 days away from home per month for pilots. Friends at all three like it. Their time at home is theirs, no junior manning from home. They don’t have to plan commutes, or jumpseat, they keep all the air miles and are executive platinum, they keep hotel points too.

No excuse to put up with the BS anymore....

Originally Posted by flysooner9

Sources I have is nothing more then a trickle. 2 or 3 per class. Will probably be less in the future as more regionals are offering street captain gigs

Originally Posted by TransWorld

Here is an additional perspective. If the interpretation is half or 25 each month, which ever is GREATER was correct:

Think about the case where hiring (after a black swan event or some other decision by AA) was 10 per month.

Using this interpretation, Envoy would be required to flow 25 and AA would be forced to accept that number, because it was the greater of half of 10 (flow of 5) or flow of 25. Again, use your head. That makes no sense.

If, on the other hand, it was half or 25 each month, which ever is LESS was correct, Envoy would be required to flow 5. That makes good sense.

Originally Posted by moon

Obviously in your scenario they wouldn't send more than AA hires. It makes sense that envoy would want the lesser of the two but that is not what was bargained for. Just what they hope they can get.

Here's some common sense thinking. If the company was so sure it was the lesser why would they have come to the negotiating table during the grievance arbitration. They would just let it play out and the arbitrator would rule in their favor. However they are clearly negotiating with the union. So maybe it's not so cut and dry as to what the ruling would be. Does that make good sense?

Originally Posted by TransWorld

If the GREATER is the way the agreement states, it would put them in violation by not sending more than AA would be hiring. We both agree that is foolish. Yet the pilots legitimately could go to grievance claiming a violation and be awarded damages. That adds more to the rationale that interpretation is incorrect.

No, your second point does not make good sense. You are implying a cause and effect relationship that is not necessarily there. At the current rate, there is a 8 year flow (assuming no attrition). Once the Protected Pilots finish flowing, it slows to a 14 year flow (again assuming no attrition).

Yet in the next few years it is estimated the overall hiring from the regionals will grow to one fifth of the total pilots a year, the equivalent of a 5 year flow. To stay competitive and have usefulness for recruiting, they need to have something in that range. Pilots would laugh at a 14 year flow.

This would cause Envoy and AA to want to renegotiate the rate for the future. This is a driver in their self interest to want to negotiate with the union.

Originally Posted by ag386

You sure are putting a spin on the flow. Bottom line is the company will ALWAYS do the minimum or LESS. As evidenced in the start of the thread, a two month hiatus in the flow is a setback Envoy pilots won't ever get back. Company may promise to catch up but highly unlikely.

You must be new to Envoy. I would have my apps out everywhere and trying everything possible to get out. Flow is a gimmick beyond anyone inside of a year out.