I have zero sympathy for new hires who have been coddled from day one.

This agreement is a POS for those that have been here and paid there dues over and over.

Yes, you can now bid at 950 hours because f/o's will be given 50 hours if IOE thus taking them over 1000 for the fed ride.

Haven’t read it yet but heard the flow drops to 125/year after protected pilots? 10 a month average . If so.... there goes any meaningful flow at Envoy particularly if you’re an older pilot. Flow went up in smoke as a lot of guys said it would. It was just fairy dust.

There is a long line out the door.....

Unless AA hires a lot more yes, at least how I am reading it. Basically just took the flow right out of the equation and virtually guarantees A lot will be going to their competition.

For now there may be but with the flow being virtually gutted for everyone but the 500 protected pilots, I feel this will change.

No. It goes to 15/month for the pre-DOS. Then post-DOS it's the lesser of 25% of the total new hires at AA for the entire year, or the equation that's based on the size of our seniority list. Based on our current size, it boils down to the lesser of 25% or 20ish a month. The 25% figure will more than likely be the limiting factor which would break down to about 18/month depending if AA can hit their new hire class number goals.

So even still, vastly diminished the value of the flow, especially for thosnthat over 35.

I see the brains trust is put in full force today.

Where are you guys reading that anything changes for non PP’s? All this loa does is settle the grievance for the group currently flowing which currently has a grievance pertaining to them.

Once all the PP’s have flowed and the company violates that agreement then anothe grievance will be filed.

I’m a non PP and while the LOA isn’t perfect it does fix more things than not.

I'd like to have seen the rest of the pilots group at a 20 per person minimum or a straight 1/125 ratio at a minimum.

There was no grievance in for the rest. When the time comes cross that bridge then unless the company negotiates in good faith in advance of non pp flowing of their own fruition.

The flow hasn't changed for all other groups. It is the same as it was when you signed on the dotted line.

It's the same language that was there when you signed the employment paperwork. I'm not really understanding why everyone is acting like this part changed for the worse. Would getting increased flow for every group have been great? Of course. But I don't get why guys are acting like the post PP language has somehow changed.

I guess I am coming from a different angle. While I understand it hasn’t changed, that’s kind of the point I am making. I just felt we were in a great spot negotiating wise and it would have been nice to firm everything up and improve the flow for everyone. That’s all I am trying to say. I personally know people that were on the fence about coming here because the flow was kind of wishy washy and this doesn’t do anything for that.

Sure we can griev again, but really, we are just pushing the problem down the road. I am very happy however for the PP’s and wish it could have come sooner for them. Congratulations.

The rest of the changes have pros and cons all around so I am pretty neutral to them.

I think people were just expecting flow relief for all. Perhaps we just need to wait and griev it later when there will be a violation.

Any idea why someone going to 145 LGA CA training in 10 days would be withheld from training due to staffing, and returned to their status of 175 FO DFW?

Here I was thinking we needed CAs, especially in LGA. And I bid for it specifically lol. I don’t get it.

Pretty happy about the 950 hours to bid for an upgrade. That shaved off a month before more money.

Maybe they don’t want to pay you the captain rate yet lol.

I know we just gave up a lot to get 4 extra flows.

I'm ok settling the grievance before the arbitration but we gave up some stuff to get the settlement.

I think this was mostly a good settlement. Too bad there are no reparations to those who were affected and have flowed or are flowing short term. I think THAT is one area that could have been better negotiated. I want my 3 months of wide body Captain pay back!

Unlimited Commuter Hotels
 

I am a first officer that just started reserve at LGA. Does anyone know when the unlimited commuter hotels are effective? In addition, it also states that they are effective until a base transfer or 3 months whichever occurs first. Does that base transfer mean that you were awarded a base or actually moving to another base?

Woah!!!! Didn't read all that info. A12 passes and unlimited commuter hotels. Lol. Alright. After reading that then I'd say it's a pretty fair deal all around. Granted it's not going to completely make up for everything but for forced upgrades but I think it puts us closer to getting past the forced upgrades.

Yeah I have gone back and read the additional info as well and it really is a pretty fair deal. While I would have loved to lock in higher flow numbers for the non protected pilots the rest is pretty solid.

Yeah, it’s basically home based TDY for the first three months of those based in LGA. I like it but think it should last all the way until someone is able to bit out of it if it was due to a forced upgrade.

Side note, with unlimited commuter hotels and A12 travel from anywhere in the lower 48, I don’t know why more commuters don’t just bid for home based TDY when it’s offered... seniority in the TDY base usually yields a better schedule ta’boot.

By the way, for those that have not done home based TDY, A12 is not ‘possitive space’. Basically gaurantees you’re ahead of all D1s. When I did home based TDY, there were times I could get a confirmed seat ahead of time with A12, but usually no, even if the travel planner showed availability... so lower than an A3.

Should be A1’s and last until you leave LGA not just 3 months.

And Endeavor pay rates with an AA seniority number.

I think it can always be a bit better but 99.9% of the time an A3/a12 is just as good as an a1. And I agree it should be until they are able to bid out of LGA.

Aren’t you going to PDT?

I got the same message same situation except I’m 145 FO. My HI10 hasn’t changed though so who knows what’s going on.

If the argument is that this was to settle the grievances for only the protected pilots, then why did my QOL get traded away? If I give something away I should get something back in this climate.
My point is, we finally had leverage and now it’s gone for more benefit to the company than the pilots. The only reason the company came to the negotiating table is because they believed that that pilots had areasonable argument as to the flow violations. Upper hand pilots. Secondly, the company is in desperate need of capatains regardless, upper hand pilots. Here are the pros. 1) The protected pilots get anywhere from 0 to 3.5 months less time to flow. 2) HVAs and get 3 months of home based tdy if they get put in New York along with the 45k (non HVAs should be able to bid to other bases if they want so this hardly affects them) 3) Captain upgrades get 3 months pay at captain rates (hardly a pro since the company is saving that much plus more not paying out retention bonuses)
Cons: 1) forced upgrades now require 50 less hours. 2) must be a captain to flow. 3) FOs who try to avoid flying by bidding reserve are forced to fly out of seniority order which is a fundamental change in the whole idea of why one bids reserve. 4) the protected pilots who have already flowed to AA and were violated get nothing. 5) the company now has an increased ability to attract HVAs which zaps any leverage the pilot group may have had to negotiate for increased captain pay (which hurts the lifers who have gained nothing by this LOA)
For those saying this was a fair deal I sincerely doubt that in the long term. Like getting 3 months of increased pay and QOL instead of 8 years of higher wages.

Where in the fineprint did it say must be a Captain to flow?

Starting January of 2019. It’s there.

Just a point of clarification:

A12s are confirmed, providing ‘E’ inventory is available when you make the booking. When I worked at HDQ, A12 was how we travled for work, and even if they were paying oversales, you were not off loaded. The trick is picking flights that say ‘book’ vs ‘list’ in the NRTP (sometimes e space does become available after you lost, and it will automatically confirm you 2-7 days before departure). Once you ‘book’, even if you are not immediately assigned a seat, take your PNR to AA.com, and then choose a seat. At that point check in as normal at ~24 hours and it is essentially confirmed. Now not all flights will have ‘E space’ as it is inventory controlled, but at 7 days out, many of hub-to-hub flights still should. I know that this is still not perfect as our schedules are more dynamic than an HDQ employee, but still a good start!

This is more academic question since I’m not doing TDY anymore but for anyone else trying to do A12, sounds like you can help.

For me, I was told to book A12 myself via FOS by using HIGO but using A12 instead of A1D or A3D. Only way I knew to look up flights was via Travel Planner. Would find the flights I wanted and go to FOS and book them via HIGO but with A12 at the end. I would then go back to the Travel Planner and import the trip giving my a PNR. Then go to AA.com to try to get a seat. Sometimes I could get a seat right away, usually not. Sometimes I’d check in at 24 hours and I’d already been assigned a seat, usually not. Usually, I’d show up at the gate and wait as a standby, high on the list, but a standby.

I know nothing of this NRTP and “book” vs “list” or “E inventory”. These are new terms to me.

Probably although I have an offer from Envoy as well.

In the travel planner, there is a box that says ‘type of travel,’. This is where you can use your ATW Tickets, or just a basic standby listing. When I worked at AA, this was where you selected ‘business travel’ and that is how you booked your A12s for business. It was the subsequent screens that then said book vs list. I just looked myself, and that functionality was removed from my travel planner. Amazing, trusted with passengers, but not trusted to not take advantage of A12s, even though they audit it pretty closely.

Everything else you said was spot on, and you described getting E-space verses business standby.

What I am going to do, is email the travel desk to see if we can get that functionality turned on, or atleast a way to see weather or not e-space is available on a flight.

Yeah, just went to Travel Planner and looked, no business travel option there. I’m guessing this the functionality what you’re looking to turn on is. If so, that would have been GREAT!!! It solves the biggest inconvienience I had with it... bigger than the standby which was only an issue once for me. No matter what, it’s a two leg commute to NY for me. Making the reservation via FOS meant two seperate PNRs which is a headache in all kinds of ways.

Edit: I do remember that when I imported the trips to Travel Planner that they were shown as ‘Business Travel’ though.

Don’t be blinded by the so-called benefits of this LOA. The captain pay starting at the award date, the tdy benefits are not for the pilots, they are for the company. They help attract HVAs which keeps Envoy from having to increase captain pay. Secondly and I forgot this on my earlier rant, but the union seems to think that the benefit to the pilot group is when a sub 1000 hr FO is forced to fly on reserve, that we are going to be sitting at home with pay on a bean bag chair eating Cheetos...but they are only going to displace FOs with more than 1000 hrs, and how many of those do we have? None! The trips will come from open time, aka no OT for you. Benefits the company but the union wants us to think it’s great for us somehow. Man I’m dying over here.

^^^ This - And your prior post ^^^

Once again our own union F's us - I'm not sure which is worse the company or the union. I guess the union since I HAVE to pay THEM for the privilege...

Email also said the displacements will happen before ATTOT opens and those displaced are not subject to reasignment. There really hasn’t been much available at ATTOT for a while.

OT after that will still be fair game for those that want it. Still curious to find out if those displaced will be able to pick up OT on the days they were displaced AND whether it’s premium or not.

Yes, a displaced FO can pick up OT on the days they were displaced at the applicable OT premium- 150 or 200 percent. Or they can enjoy the paid time off. Their choice.