Our current “Rsv”contractual rights suck anyways.

Well pops I’m not your son and those whippersnappers almost outnumber us on the top of the list. You can choose to denegrate them and take away their qol but you have to be ready for the swing of the pendulum

Hahahahaha. Swing of the pendulum GTFOH. Seniority is life son. "If you ain't first, you're last". If you were hired as a protected pilot you wouldnt have these problems.

I'm not denegrating anyone there, Bigdaddy, you're missing the point. They can bid reserve and fly as little as they want, as long as it's wasn't hurting the rest of the pilot group. But now it is! The company needs them to upgrade. Thier refusal to do so, while CA seats are severily understaffed hurts the whole pilot group. I illustrated in another post that the company was going to "get thiers" one way or another. If the pilots refuse to cooperate and do thier job, then we all end up with another "pre-assigned RAP" type unilateral move by the company, where everyone is punished and no one gains. (Refer to that post, if you don't understand how pre-assigned RAPS came about). Envoy WILL get someone to fill those seats, period. You think they'd just drop Tens of Millions of dollars in revenue seat miles, just because xx amount of people don't want to upgrade? Those left seats have to be filled with somebody, and they will be filled with the unfortunate ones that just happen to fall at the bottom of the seniority list. That's the way seniority works, not just at Envoy, but at any airline. You know that.
Pendilum swing??? The pendilum has swung and hit all of us, several times. Some of us more than others. It sucks, and I don't wish that striking blow on anyone. At least this time it was padded. Some take it better than others. Some of us weathered the blows, others decided to move on. The choice is thiers.

Would it change your opinion if you knew I was a protected pilot and not a millennial. What I’m trying to say is that if the less informed guys from the last 2 years feel like you fu.ked them then they will have no emotional problem fu.cking you over later. Sam should be all over this issue with a follow up email explaining his thought process. What I’m trying to say is that this move has divided the group more. Even if you don’t believe it should have

I DO agree with you there. The sad part here is that this is now fracturing the pilot group, like you said. "The Haves and the Have Not's". I agree, We're fighting amongst ourselves, where the <2 yr FO's feel that the PP's threw them under the bus, and we did NOT. Sam, or ALPA in general, would do well to explain the 'come abouts' of this LOA.
As far as trying to explain that this LOA only makes an even compromise, (and I hesitate to even say that...), we have tried to explain, (without sounding like an old codger complaining about their walk uphill both ways, barefoot in the snow), where we're coming from. And why the LOA, while not perfect, actually helps everyone, including them. But they don't want to hear it. They seem to only play the victim role.
If this continues, watch the company play the fractured pilot group against each other.
As a PP, you KNOW exactly what I'm talking about. So what do you suggest we, (PP's who are not MEC officers) do?

Perhaps not talking down to the bottom half of the list is a good start. It’s almost like the company knew the pilot group would be fractured by this. https://youtu.be/PyQuPILrBCk

https://youtu.be/PyQuPILrBCk

The group is not fractured. There are a hand full of vocal pilots that are unhappy. If you can’t see that this is a win for everyone on property than I urge you to get involved with ALPA and be the change you wish to see. There will be more wins for us going forward. Times are good. Enjoy the ride. Unfortunately, in this business displacements are always a possibility, now you get A passes and unlimited hotels🙂

A12 'Positive' travel? To NCE? Why not A3 or even A1? Have fun getting bumped.

It's like giving some people a bag of gold bars, and they complain how heavy it is.
🤦🏻*♂️

You can get a confirmed seat. Once the seat is assigned you’re not getting bumped. Wait to the last minute? You’re still a Revenue Standby vs. a Non-Rev. Yet you still complain??

Someone explain the difference between A3 and A12 to me because I don’t get it. As far as I can tell it’s “positive space on an unsold seat” on both.

With bonuses a first year FO at Endeavor makes $6.00 /hour less than a 3rd year captain at Envoy?

This was discussed previously in this thread. A12, as I was told to book A12 when I did home based TDY, ended up being more or less a high priority standby most of the time. As in, I would be waiting to see if I had a seat right up until the door closed... even if there were unsold seats when I checked in 24 hours before. So, better than D1 but worse than A3. Someone else in this thread has indicated there is another way to book A12 that is positive space but only on select flights. That method was unavailable to me. It's still unclear that to me if 'that method' will be available to those headed to LGA. In either case, I'd consider A3 a step up from A12.

While you're right about once you get a confirmed seat you're not getting bumped, good luck getting that confirmed seat. I was given instructions to book A12 with the HIGO command in FOS. VERY rarely got a confirmed seat in advance. Almost always standby. Got very tired of people telling me about my 'positive space privileges' that I never had.

Edv capt makes $90... we need more money!

If you don't get on, that's on the company. It's not like you're trying to JS to work and have to have 2 attempts and use a commuter policy. It's the same way home based TDY works.

I still don't understand how anyone can complain about this.

Definitely make sure you book as early as possible. I think A12s start ticketing up to 14 days in advance, but you should be able to put in the listing prior to that. There are limited e-seats on each flight and, per the Q1 2018 town hall, there are approximately 1,700 people traveling for AA/WO business on A-type passes every day. Hub to hub routes are always going to be tougher (especially from DFW since the e-seats will fill up quickly). I would imagine those commuting from places other than DFW will have more luck since they won’t be dealing with training center and HQ people.

It sounds to me like you forgot to check-in. You can get denied boarding with any code other than A1 if you don't check in.

Otherwise, when you do check in it will assign you an available economy seat and hold it for you.

Again, why not A1 or at least A3???

I’m surprised by that question coming from you. Is the coolaid getting watered down around here?

Because shut TFU, that's why. A12 or bust.

It essentially is A3. Works the exact same way as far as I can tell. There might be differences in who/what they'll bump you for, no one seems to know.

Exactly. People want also first class? Fkng damn it.

Definately NOT the case.

Exactly!!!!

Last month we sent 38 guys. With this agreement we are going to send a minimal of 29 ( RW sent his message when we didn’t accept 30 and then he would only send 29) So I’m still trying to figure out the benefits of this LOA. :confused:

Lol...we didn't send 38 last month. There were 38 selections on 5/1 to go into the pool. In the past, some months they "select" less than 25 and some months they "select" more than 25. The selection number doesn't matter. What matters is how many bodies actually are sent over.

AA would never agree to A1 due to the effect on revenue management. As a side item, APA would probably throw a fit about regional pilots getting “must rides” for commuting.

A12 is the standard business travel pass for employees who travel for work. You are commuting...not deadheading. A12 is the appropriate pass classification for this travel purpose (actually, non-rev is normal so this would be considered a perk).

Of the many things people can complain about, I’m not sure this is one of them.

I demand A+ passes (they'll throw the flight crew off to accommodate me).

Sam Pool Email
 

“Seek First to Understand, Then to Be Understood.”

Stephen Covey- 7 habits of Highly Effective People.


Great book and reading for personal development & character building. Many on here NEED to read that!

My comments weren't meant to be a complaint about the addition of A12. That of course is an improvement even as standby. I just wanted to point out that if we're still just doing A12 via HIGO like I was told to do when I did Home Based TDY, then it's not really positive space. Someone earlier in the thread pointed out there can be another way to book it where you can see which flights you can book positive space through the Travel Planner but that was not presented as an option to me back then. Hopefully it will be in the future.

I brought up booking A12s through the travel planner vs. HIGOA earlier in the thread. I heard back from the travel team, and they said they had not received guidance yet on how we are to book the travel, but said we could email them or the Envoy travel desk if we do not 'initially' get the required permissions to book A12s through NRTP.

Finding E-Space (confirmed space) should not be too difficult, especially more than 14 days out, but there will be some flights that it is never available, and you will have to be a revenue standby should we elect to take that flight. E-Space (A12s) works pretty well, but even as a manager at HDQ, it was still required that we travel for business as A12s.

The way I would proceed, is once the guidance is finalized on when we can start booking A12s for commuting...I would email the travel desk insensately to find out which flight have E-Space available, to the point of annoyance, such they give us that functionality. The way I see it, if we can book via HIGOA, there is no reason why they should not give us the same functionality in the NRTP.

Not sure if it was answered before but do you still get retention bonus AND captain pay once you get the award? Or do they take the bonus away? If that's the case then they're taking your bonus money and giving it to you in a different way.

Trust me it's worth it.

The bonus is valued 27-50 dollars per day. Once you upgrade gets awarded then your pay increases and you get higher quality lines plus OT.

It has been explained that April captain awards are not eligible for the captain pay, but what happens after the next vacancy award? I assume that many of us will not have had our FedRide yet, thus we will still be getting FO pay, despite other pilots (even potentially in our upgrade class) getting CA pay. This seems like a significant oversight in the language of the LOAs.

Book in DECS, remember dept. date, flight nr. Import into travel planner, get PNR and remember to check in, put in AA app and pick seat.

April awards are getting withholding pay based on the way you bid for the April award. If you preference bid for CA you most likely will be getting withholding pay (CA rates backpay upon completion of IOE) from from around early April. If you proferred to displace then it would be from some time later than that in order or seniority.

Unfortunately there will always be some winners and losers with LOA’s.

Where did this guidance come from?

What’s your point? There are people at other companies doing the exact same job and getting treated much better. The only butthurt is coming from you. The industry has changed and Envoy needs to keep up. If you were in the same position has a new hire FO today, you’d feel the same. Sounds like youre jealous ;)