Sam Pool Email
 

Did anyone get the other email he talks about regarding the actual agreement? Pretty curious to what it states.

I was wondering the same.

Nope. Just his, sounds like he is selling something that stinks

Yeah I kinda felt like to was a prepare for bad news email.

29 a month for protected pilots, can be up to 50%. (If AA and envoy agree!!!)

Street capts

Start Capt pay day awarded Capt, no longer after fed ride

Protected pilots will never see another dime from envoy, we will keep the crap we have till we flow

Give out the remaining flying after attot closes. To guys within a certain range of 1000

Captain pay is big. 29? What a weird number to pick.

Wow, so as a non-protected pilot, I just gave away the farm for an extra 3 months of captain pay when I upgrade and 4 months less time to flow? Why keep the bad language in the flow agreement for the rest of the pilot group if it’s already a known problem? Feels like the perfect bandaid for the company’s short term problem, and short term solution for the pilot group’s long term problem. I consider myself to be one on the pilots that is slightly disappointed with this.

How many of the Union guys that negotiated this deal are protected pilots?

The negotiating chairman is a post protected pilot.

Haha and no more FOs hiding on RSV, damn.

As a 600 hr FO, I feel like I’m giving up the most only to gain the least. The protected pilots get more flow by giving up nothing. None of the concessions will affect a protected pilot. Good for them I guess but not at the expense of everyone who is junior.

Burn it down.

They can now force you as a reserve pilot with over 800 hours to fly by displacing a lineholder. The union completely sold the first officers out on this. Not surprising. The agreement will move SP’s flow up a month.

Will allow the company to assign flying to reserve FOs? I'm assuming this is for new hires with prior 121 looking to upgrade ASAP? Any senior FOs who are on reserve are on there for the exact opposite reason, delaying that upgrade. I guess 800 is the new number to avoid. Although if this is what we're getting instead of CA pay increases and general reserve improvements I guess there's no longer a reason to delay the upgrade then, is there?

We gave up a **** ton to still be here, even though I voted no

As a CA upgrade currently in training, I just got a pay raise and a flow date several months sooner (post-DOS hire). Also, since I now will get 20 extra hours of IOE, I’ll be spending less time in MIA after training before I assume DCE status in July, and will be able to hold DCL that much sooner and spend less time on reserve when I get there. This amounts to zero negatives for me, since I thought the lesser of 25 or 50% a month was the case already.

This is BS. Any FO with 800hrs 121 at envoy can be off of reserve if they want unless they are prior 121. This means that all FOs who are choosing to be on reserve who aren’t prior 121, are probably doing it to avoid flying. Saying the “overwhelming consensus” is saying that all those FOs choosing to be on reserve really want to get flight time as quick as possible. Really?

I thought the same thing, every fo I fly with on rsv, can hold a line, but don't want to for obvious reasons

Wait were you wanting to burn it down when as a NH you got a 20k bonus plus base salary increases when The protected pilots got hardly anything. Your increase in compensation was 20x more than the protected pilots.

I have been saying this continually that at Envoy we have winners and losers. It sucks that this time you drew the short straw.

Honestly folks.... they paid their dues to save this company. Lost CA wages, lost flying and flow, lost VACATION, this is nothing! Compared to what they endured to keep this company afloat and where it is today.


So I’m not whining. I have a lot to be grateful for. LONG-TERM thinking.

Maybe instead of screwing the majority of the pilot group over for 4 more flow slots they could have said no, give some QOL and a pay raise and then they’red be a long line out the door to be here, and they could up the flow organically.

Few online forum bantering (few compared to overall large FOs on property).

I want to be a captain, but on my terms. There are positives in this agreement, but they still don’t outweigh the fact that I am being forced to upgrade and go back to reserve before I want to. While I respect the sacrifices of those of you who stuck it out through the bad times, I am concerned with my QOL, and a mandatory upgrade drastically reduces that QOL.

I m a 600 hourish FO that likes the new rules regarding fo flying. I dont bid reserve but i do value paid time with my family more than speeding to 1000 hours.

The one question i dont see answered, if i m displaced under this provision, can i pick up ot at premium on those days?

Regarding the flow settlement... Feel like we could have gotten more but i m not losing sleep over it. Still not expecting to wait arround for flow.

Aw yes, displace me per LOA daddy.

Why would you expect to be displaced if you have less than 1000hrs? Wouldn’t that defeat the purpose?

You received your sign on bonus at the expense of everyone senior to you....most of the remainder of the protected pilots have been screwed over by the company for the past 2 years while all the new hires have cashed in with big bonuses, short reserve time and quick upgrades. Be thankful you didn't have to start out at $27 an hour, 3 years reserve, 8 year upgrade, and multiple base closures and displacements.

Now you get to upgrade and make CA pay day 1, and flow faster to AA.

I’m kind of surprised by the pilots beyond the protected pilots that seem to think they’re not benefiting from the increase in flow to the protected pilots. In fact, those who benefit most from this increase are the last class of protected pilots and everybody junior to them as the increase in flow through compounds with time. I think everybody after the protected pilots just moved forward 3-4 months, not sure exactly.

Once again the folks who aren’t affected will reap the benefits

Lot’s of “I” in that statement.

You guys now get ca Pay day 1 not 3-4 months later. Flow 4ish months sooner. More hotels & A12 passes if new to LGA based. 25 extra hours IOE. And you’re complaing because you can’t personslly sit rsv longer due to not wanting to upgrade right away?

The rest of us sat years on reserve, saw minimum 4 base closures and flow disruptions continually. Let’s not even talk about pay as Pedro stated

This is really not going to help the company get more TOTAL captain eligible FOs sooner. It will force a few hold outs sooner. But if they are going to DISPLACE other FOs from flying, then it will delay those FOs by the same number of hours.

This is also taking away OT from those who want it and are trying to build time.

If the “overwhelming consensus” of FOs on the cusp was wanting to get more flight time, you wouldn’t have people on the cusp bidding reserve. You also wouldn’t have to displace those who just became eligible. Do they really think so or expect anyone to believe this?

They're going to displace FO's that only recently got awarded a line, not ones with 750 hours for others with 800 hours.

Isn’t adding bonuses for new hires different than forcing concessions on the bottom of the seniority list in order to benefit the top of the list? If the protected pilots had to take a pay cut in order to subsidize the new hire bonuses then I’ll buy that argument. Honestly, all they had to do was negotiate better flow for the “whole” pilot group and I would have been happy to be forced to upgrade.

Congrats, we gave up all of our leverage for maybe 2-3 months faster flow.

Here's some info from the email for those outside looking in

https://i.imgur.com/Mc9AIx6.png

https://i.imgur.com/gtc8nWX.png

https://i.imgur.com/tQaYCrA.png

Here’s a question. Let’s say I’m awarded a CA slot on the next vacancy and I start getting captain pay. Do I still receive fo retention bonuses if it takes me anothe 3 months to complete training?

So now it’s “up to the company” and not contractual to send 50%

So previously if AA hired 40 a month we flowed 25

Now if AA hire 40 a month we flow 20?

Am I reading that correctly.

We did take a pay cut. Remember the bankruptcy contract and them missing away 1000 of pilots and then had to find a way to get new hires here. The concessions we took paid for the bonues.

No, they’d flow 29. Not to mention the remedy

Protected pilots yes, the rest no.

In addition, am I reading that they will allow FO’s to bid for upgrade at 950 hours now? I only say that because of the wording stating they will displace pilots to get FO’s from 800-949. I was under the impression we could even bid for upgrade until 1000 hours. Of course I could be just misreading that part.