Reserve Rule Interpretation
10-01-2018, 07:59 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Position: Upright
Posts: 396
Reserve Rule Interpretation
Starting a new thread for us newbies and others on reserve at another's recommendation. Posted below what I was asking on another general thread to kick it off.
TIA
"Wow, just wow, what?
Are you saying that if I am released from a RAP at 1800 on one day, don’t confirm my assignment for the next, that CS can’t call me as early as 0400 the next morning with an assignment or a 0400 RAP?
Don’t I start rest as soon as I duty off, which in this example, would mean I have had a legal rest period by 0400 and could be assigned something other than a rest period?
Isn’t it true that CS CAN, but doesn’t HAVE to call you at midnight with a rest assignment? Where in the contract does it say they SHALL call at midnight and give you rest, and that they can’t just wait until you’ve had a legal rest period to call with an assignment?
I understand what Pedro is saying, I believe.
One thing I did not get exactly clear in my explanation was the union email. That was about pilots who had already been assigned a RAP and were then called by CS and put on rest again to extend legality within a single duty day.
So, tell me if I am wrong here. If you have not confirmed an assignment, yes, CS CAN call at midnight or anytime thereafter to put you on a legal rest period with that first phone call. I understand that is the USUAL practice as Pedro was saying, but is that the contractually required or legal practice?
However, can’t they also just wait until you’ve had legal rest from the end of your last duty period, then call with an assignment instead of a rest period?
If I end a flight assignment at 1000 on day one, have I not had 14 hours of rest by the end of the day midnight, and am now legal for assignment? Isn’t that the risk you take by playing the “not confirming” game? What prevents the company from just giving me an assignment at this point rather than a new rest period?"
TIA
"Wow, just wow, what?
Are you saying that if I am released from a RAP at 1800 on one day, don’t confirm my assignment for the next, that CS can’t call me as early as 0400 the next morning with an assignment or a 0400 RAP?
Don’t I start rest as soon as I duty off, which in this example, would mean I have had a legal rest period by 0400 and could be assigned something other than a rest period?
Isn’t it true that CS CAN, but doesn’t HAVE to call you at midnight with a rest assignment? Where in the contract does it say they SHALL call at midnight and give you rest, and that they can’t just wait until you’ve had a legal rest period to call with an assignment?
I understand what Pedro is saying, I believe.
One thing I did not get exactly clear in my explanation was the union email. That was about pilots who had already been assigned a RAP and were then called by CS and put on rest again to extend legality within a single duty day.
So, tell me if I am wrong here. If you have not confirmed an assignment, yes, CS CAN call at midnight or anytime thereafter to put you on a legal rest period with that first phone call. I understand that is the USUAL practice as Pedro was saying, but is that the contractually required or legal practice?
However, can’t they also just wait until you’ve had legal rest from the end of your last duty period, then call with an assignment instead of a rest period?
If I end a flight assignment at 1000 on day one, have I not had 14 hours of rest by the end of the day midnight, and am now legal for assignment? Isn’t that the risk you take by playing the “not confirming” game? What prevents the company from just giving me an assignment at this point rather than a new rest period?"
10-01-2018, 09:13 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
Originally Posted by CrowneVic
Starting a new thread for us newbies and others on reserve at another's recommendation. Posted below what I was asking on another general thread to kick it off.
TIA
"Wow, just wow, what?
Are you saying that if I am released from a RAP at 1800 on one day, don’t confirm my assignment for the next, that CS can’t call me as early as 0400 the next morning with an assignment or a 0400 RAP?
Don’t I start rest as soon as I duty off, which in this example, would mean I have had a legal rest period by 0400 and could be assigned something other than a rest period?
Isn’t it true that CS CAN, but doesn’t HAVE to call you at midnight with a rest assignment? Where in the contract does it say they SHALL call at midnight and give you rest, and that they can’t just wait until you’ve had a legal rest period to call with an assignment?
I understand what Pedro is saying, I believe.
One thing I did not get exactly clear in my explanation was the union email. That was about pilots who had already been assigned a RAP and were then called by CS and put on rest again to extend legality within a single duty day.
So, tell me if I am wrong here. If you have not confirmed an assignment, yes, CS CAN call at midnight or anytime thereafter to put you on a legal rest period with that first phone call. I understand that is the USUAL practice as Pedro was saying, but is that the contractually required or legal practice?
However, can’t they also just wait until you’ve had legal rest from the end of your last duty period, then call with an assignment instead of a rest period?
If I end a flight assignment at 1000 on day one, have I not had 14 hours of rest by the end of the day midnight, and am now legal for assignment? Isn’t that the risk you take by playing the “not confirming” game? What prevents the company from just giving me an assignment at this point rather than a new rest period?"
TIA
"Wow, just wow, what?
Are you saying that if I am released from a RAP at 1800 on one day, don’t confirm my assignment for the next, that CS can’t call me as early as 0400 the next morning with an assignment or a 0400 RAP?
Don’t I start rest as soon as I duty off, which in this example, would mean I have had a legal rest period by 0400 and could be assigned something other than a rest period?
Isn’t it true that CS CAN, but doesn’t HAVE to call you at midnight with a rest assignment? Where in the contract does it say they SHALL call at midnight and give you rest, and that they can’t just wait until you’ve had a legal rest period to call with an assignment?
I understand what Pedro is saying, I believe.
One thing I did not get exactly clear in my explanation was the union email. That was about pilots who had already been assigned a RAP and were then called by CS and put on rest again to extend legality within a single duty day.
So, tell me if I am wrong here. If you have not confirmed an assignment, yes, CS CAN call at midnight or anytime thereafter to put you on a legal rest period with that first phone call. I understand that is the USUAL practice as Pedro was saying, but is that the contractually required or legal practice?
However, can’t they also just wait until you’ve had legal rest from the end of your last duty period, then call with an assignment instead of a rest period?
If I end a flight assignment at 1000 on day one, have I not had 14 hours of rest by the end of the day midnight, and am now legal for assignment? Isn’t that the risk you take by playing the “not confirming” game? What prevents the company from just giving me an assignment at this point rather than a new rest period?"
You have several things confused.
1. You don't understand legal rest periods.
2. You don't understand the types of legal reserve assignments and how they differ.
3. You can have multiple duty periods in one day as long as they follow 117.
If you are preassigned a RAP 1 CS can legally and contractually call at 0401 give you ten hours of rest and then give you a flight assignment.
Back on the midnight thing. If you do not have a schedule then the rest you "accumulated" until then doesn't count for anything. You need to read the definition of "rest period" in 117.
You can ONLY be legal for an assignment (flight, RAP or standby) if you knew about it ten hours before the duty time startedand you were provided 8 hours of sleep, and it was uninterrupted. (Extenuating rules apply when picking up OT.)
10-01-2018, 09:32 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
Let me give you a brief history of reserve rules at Envoy. Back in the good ole days when CS gave you an assignment the day prior you just did it. You confirmed and you flew the assignment. At one point you didn't even have to confirm you just showed up to your assignment. Well 117 said the company couldn't require you to check your schedule or do anything when you are in rest so at midnight the company would call and give assignments to those that didn't confirm with the required ten hours of rest. The absurd scenario you described where no one would confirm their RAP 1 ACTUALLY happened for more than a year without pre assigned RAP 1. The company would have zero pilots on early RAPs and had to cancel flights. Then they started to do PRE assignments of RAP 1 via HI6 on their first day back off rest.
There's two things that I want to clarify. If you don't confirm your schedule for the next day and you have been pre assigned a RAP 1 and you proffered for something else then your RAp 1 is Put back on you at 9 pm central.
If you are in the middle of the reserve days and you forget to confirm then CS will likely call you between 8-930 instead of waiting until midnight. (People will disagree with this next statement and they may be right contractually but my advice is that those who want to avoid hassles and are on probation.) If you get a call from CS before midnight you are not required to call them back. My only suggestion is if you are currently on a RAP or standby then you should return the call. Some people will say you Never have to return a call for a next day reserve assignment until midnight.
There's two things that I want to clarify. If you don't confirm your schedule for the next day and you have been pre assigned a RAP 1 and you proffered for something else then your RAp 1 is Put back on you at 9 pm central.
If you are in the middle of the reserve days and you forget to confirm then CS will likely call you between 8-930 instead of waiting until midnight. (People will disagree with this next statement and they may be right contractually but my advice is that those who want to avoid hassles and are on probation.) If you get a call from CS before midnight you are not required to call them back. My only suggestion is if you are currently on a RAP or standby then you should return the call. Some people will say you Never have to return a call for a next day reserve assignment until midnight.
10-01-2018, 09:45 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 687
Originally Posted by Pedro4President
Let me give you a brief history of reserve rules at Envoy. Back in the good ole days when CS gave you an assignment the day prior you just did it. You confirmed and you flew the assignment. At one point you didn't even have to confirm you just showed up to your assignment. Well 117 said the company couldn't require you to check your schedule or do anything when you are in rest so at midnight the company would call and give assignments to those that didn't confirm with the required ten hours of rest. The absurd scenario you described where no one would confirm their RAP 1 ACTUALLY happened for more than a year without pre assigned RAP 1. The company would have zero pilots on early RAPs and had to cancel flights. Then they started to do PRE assignments of RAP 1 via HI6 on their first day back off rest.
There's two things that I want to clarify. If you don't confirm your schedule for the next day and you have been pre assigned a RAP 1 and you proffered for something else then your RAp 1 is Put back on you at 9 pm central.
If you are in the middle of the reserve days and you forget to confirm then CS will likely call you between 8-930 instead of waiting until midnight. (People will disagree with this next statement and they may be right contractually but my advice is that those who want to avoid hassles and are on probation.) If you get a call from CS before midnight you are not required to call them back. My only suggestion is if you are currently on a RAP or standby then you should return the call. Some people will say you Never have to return a call for a next day reserve assignment until midnight.
There's two things that I want to clarify. If you don't confirm your schedule for the next day and you have been pre assigned a RAP 1 and you proffered for something else then your RAp 1 is Put back on you at 9 pm central.
If you are in the middle of the reserve days and you forget to confirm then CS will likely call you between 8-930 instead of waiting until midnight. (People will disagree with this next statement and they may be right contractually but my advice is that those who want to avoid hassles and are on probation.) If you get a call from CS before midnight you are not required to call them back. My only suggestion is if you are currently on a RAP or standby then you should return the call. Some people will say you Never have to return a call for a next day reserve assignment until midnight.
10-01-2018, 02:18 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: BE9L, Captain
Posts: 419
So, if on reserve I proffer and am given a trip that allows me to commute in on the day of the trip as opposed to the day before a trip and I call AVRS at 5:00pm the day before and confirm it, I can sleep easy knowing that they’re not going to reassign me to something else, correct? In other words, if I confirm a trip or Ready Reserve for the following day, they can’t reassign me to another trip, RAP, or Ready Reserve before my original sign in time. Is that correct?
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10-01-2018, 02:35 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Pawn
Posts: 1,138
Originally Posted by Bruno82
So, if on reserve I proffer and am given a trip that allows me to commute in on the day of the trip as opposed to the day before a trip and I call AVRS at 5:00pm the day before and confirm it, I can sleep easy knowing that they’re not going to reassign me to something else, correct? In other words, if I confirm a trip or Ready Reserve for the following day, they can’t reassign me to another trip, RAP, or Ready Reserve before my original sign in time. Is that correct?
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10-01-2018, 03:00 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 177
Originally Posted by MD-11Loader
If you proffer, are awarded, and confirm, then you’re good to go. You can commute in like a normal trip.
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