Flow
 

How long is it taking guys to flow at envoy ?? I know someone at psa that flowed alittle over 5 years

Go flush your head please

The difference is psa hired so many pilots in 2014 that it will take several years to flow them. Envoy will be flowing 2015 hires in 2020 there’s your 5 years

That’s what happens when you undercut your brethren, steal their airplanes, and risk their future. You are rewarded for your loyalty to the emperor.

Why would I do that?

Gotcha is their a way to keep track of your flow number ?

ENYMEC interactive seniority list

Awful early to be drunk posting.

When is a new hire able to use cass?

Depends on when you were hired. If you were a 2010 or earlier hire, you are looking at a 8-10 year flow, some even longer. If you were part of the 2012-2014 group, looking at a 7-8 year flow.

Those blessed to get hired in 2015 and 2016, they are looking at 4.8-6 year flows. As you move out from 2016 the flow times come up with current new hires looking at 9 year flows.

If I were hired today, I would consider the flow nothing but an o-**** button that is there if everything else fails. If you dont have a degree, go online and start working on one so that you won't depend on the flow. If you have bad marks on your record, pray hiring keeps up and we can renegotiate a better flow contract in the coming years to get your flow time reduced.

As for PSA, their times will come up.

Do some research on why PSA still exists, and you should find why that's a loaded question in this forum.

For jump-seat privileges on other airlines, I believe you can list at the gate, in uniform, as soon as they get your paperwork in. Maybe a commuter can weigh in on this process. I haven't started commuting yet, going to be moving soon. You cannot use the MYIDTravel site to list online until 6 months from date of hire.

You can list yourself for Southwest using MyIDTravel before 6 months. Link is in my envoyair.

The ALPA app has jumpseat listing procedures and etiquette; it shouldn't require ALPA credentials to access that portion. Generally speaking, most airlines will let you list at the gate one hour prior to departure. You do not need to be in uniform as business casual is appropriate.

The airlines that require listing online via MyIDTravel have access proceedures to list jumpseats independent of length of service (six months is simply the industry standard min for ZED fares)

Spirit and southwest are the only two I am aware of that requires you to list online. Anyone else know of any?

Speaking of Spirit, if you list online and are then unable to make that flight, is there a requirement to/way to cancel online?

Frontier as well. I believe you list on id90

The listing can be cancelled in the Manage Travel tab on Spirit.com, you aren’t required to cancel but it would be discourteous to potentially leave a Spirit pilot looking for you in the gate area.

That's what I gathered from the email, but all attempts to do so invariably resulted in the system showing the "this isn't your boarding pass" barcode page with no further options. In retrospect it might have been a phone browser page limitation.

Searched other threads and couldn’t find anything but do you have to be a CA at envoy to flow? If so, will those 145 ORD FO’s flying 35 hours a month on reserve ever flow?

You do need to be a captain. It's likely that those on reserve as FOs will eventually fly the line, upgrade and flow. At this point, since January of 18, every FO with enough hours of 121 to upgrade to captain, was force upgraded to the position.

Any pilot under over 2000 seniority has a projected flow time of 7.5+ years. Even if that estimate turns out to be super conservative and they flow 2 years early that's 5.5 years to flow. Assuming 6 months worth of training, vacation, and sick time during their first 3 years. 30 months * 35 hours a month = 1050 hours by the end of year 3. So even if the flow goes much faster than predicted a reserve pilot flying 35 hours a month will spend over 2 years as a captain.

Yes, all after October 2011 need to have been a captain for a year in order to flow, you can be a captain for a year and displaced to f/o position and still qualify yo flow. Let's not forget your file must be clear of disciplinary or attendance issues too.

Just as an update for anyone, the latest seniority list came out, the most recent guy who got hired on Feb 11th's flow date is Jan 2028. So a 9 year flow according to ALPA, yes yes there's OAL attrition/people that pass on the flow, but just letting people know what the flow is at right now for a new hire.

List online
JetBlue, MyIDtravel (you can use the ask desk too)
Frontier, using ID90 website to list
Alegiant, ID90 website to list
Spirit, using their own website to list
AA, MyIDtravel or phone for non employees

Fedex/UPS/Atlas/Kalitta/Omni/ATI - call to list

That 9 year drops dramatically during your first months/years here. I moved up 100 spots in the first 2 months.
8 is pessimistic, 7 is probably pretty accurate. Assuming no 9/11 v2 events.

With this level of attrition, the flow for a new hire is 3.5 years :)
(no, I'm not serious, but that's how the math works)

That's because you were probably already here when renegotiations happened around 6 months ago for protected pilots to be bumped up to 29 a month. Just because of that renegotiation I slid up almost 1.5 years, but you're not going to see any drastic changes any more again baring 9/11/recession events.

No. I've been here for a few months. In 2 months, I moved up 98 spots.
The movement is really, really fast initially. The slowdown rate is hard to predict especially with the future attrition that will happen.
I'm guessing I'll move up 500 spots year 1. That cuts almost a year off the union prediction.

Nope, Envoy promises flow in for everyone in less than 6 years. If it takes longer, there will be guaranteed compensation for lost wages at American.

It's possible. Maybe optimistic, but it's possible. So far the company has been more accurate about the flow times than the union, and way more accurate than people at this forum.

Yeah, nobody senior to you will ever resign, get fired, or die. Your number is locked in at hiring and that’s that.

Union numbers are always worst case scenario based on current agreement. Barring any changes to the flow agreement and expecting some attrition between now and then, your flow time will decrease over time.

Nearly everyone should expect to move an average of 30 spots per month. That is roughly the current flow. But, yes, first year you do jump quite a bit more. I don’t know exact numbers, but there is pretty significant attrition the first year. People don’t make it through training or show up and have a medical issue. People decide it just isn’t for them and the handful of guys that just needed some currency and/or a 121 training event to get picked up by a major. (Yes, usually the military guys)

Second year you don’t see as much attrition. Barring another juggle of the flow (in our favor we hope) you won’t see that kind of movement. And after the PPs leave the flow will trickle for a while. There will be very little movement next year due to flow. (Or lack there of) And yes, if you scroll through the Union flow list, it is clearly displayed when this happens.

I agree there is always some attrition between the first year and flow, but it really just isn’t a lot.

I'm using average 25 per month attrition above me after PP's which I consider slightly on the pessimistic side over the next 6-7 years. Note, that when the PP->DoS people flow (which is a trickle), I'm still very junior, so I benefit from that. That gives me (and pretty much every other 2018 hire) a 6.5 year flow.
That's only a few people quitting outside the flow per month.

It will happen when it happens. You not going to get there faster discussing this to nausea sets in.
Its 6 minimum 8 on high side.

How else are we supposed to kill the time waiting for it? :confused:

6-8 I'd say is a realistic timeframe.

By applying everywhere else, going to job fairs, completing your degree, volunteering, and doing everything you have to do to get out of here before your number comes up.

Union numbers are based on zero attrition and no hiccups in the flow. Dead or slow months like December's historically and what is predicted in August aren't accounted for on the list and they really offset any attrition especially as you get within a few years if the flow as there's less attrition above you. My flow date changed by a few months because of the renegotiated numbers but other than that hasn't changed by more than a month in 2 years

Same here. Yet so many folks still here thinking their flow will decrease by 4 years in the next 5 years. The power of wishful thinking is strong with this group.

Where did you get 4 years from?
It's 8 years 11 months right now for a new hire. First few months will cut close to 6 months out of it. I've been saying 6-8 years.
No-one thinks a 4-5 year flow is realistic.