maybe so but i know two people who have interviewed at envoy, who were offered a job and were going to accept it, but now are interviewing/trying to interview at PSA as a direct result of the pay raises.

And that's great news for everyone. But saying "15 people quit the new hire class to go to PSA" is BS.

Most of the garbage posted on here is BS.

Here’s the point that you missed Dera. You’ve been at Envoy for all of a couple months but yet the entire Envoy forums are filled with your arguing and know it all posts. There are people on here with knowledge or 1st hand experiences of things you may know little to noting about. Furthermore, this forum is not as anonymous as many would believe. As a probationary pilot I would focus on staying out of the light, learning from crews you fly with and studying. I would not spend all my effort shining a light on myself and confronting anyone here who has different information or opinions than yourself.

But you guys have one of your own rookie pilots recruiting for the company on youtube.



That bugs me and I dont even work there

So posting lies and alternate facts is fine, but correcting them is wrong.
Again, good on ya'.

Dude, do you, perhaps, find it noteworthy that a few people here told you that there is a chance you have no idea whatsoever about half the things you are talking about? "Facts" aren't worth a crap when misapplied. Go read up on base awards and effective transfer dates if you want a recent example.
Hint - a friend bid NFE to OFE april 18 and got it. Transferred over august 18, saw that his relative seniority sucks, bid back and was back in LGA january 19. But yeah, go keep throwing around "immediate base awards" "facts".

I don't think increased pay is coming.
:(

Hey, those "immediate" base awards were facts from the last vacancy bid. It's not that far off now.
And hey - most junior guys got what they wanted, the most junior guys were only a few numbers away from their nr.1 preference. The most junior guy got his nr2 3P. He will get it next round. He'll hold it maybe 4-5 months off IOE. Big deal. I dont think it's bad, but that's just me.

You're complaining about 3-4 month base transfers. Seriously? Grow up.

And this is just hilarious coming from someone like you. You said that it takes a year to hold a line at DFL. Guess what, it doesn't, and it never did. I think so far my comments have been more accurate than yours.

I know a few guys who got DFE immediately too, didn’t think that was possible. This company is way to hard to predict...


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You were hired what... October?
Coming up on half a year now. How's you line doing? Got the weekends off?
If the reserve times are falling there that's great, but I'm pretty sure your "and it never was" will get a few of your colleagues angry.

I do too, then transferred to LGA while living in DFW to hold a line.

Took me 10 mos. to hold DFE. DFL is reliably extremely junior though, usually offered in class.

Damn, least they got the line though


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Yeah looks like 2 months of reserve for us after IOE in DFW.
ORD just 1 month. We know more next week.

No-one mentioned having weekends off, you're just moving goalposts now.

"Year of reserve" starts counting from the date of hire. One guy senior to you could flunk a maneuver and wait a month for a sim slot. Would finish ioe a month after you, spend that month less on reserve. Or military reserve guys could have a schedule conflict and finish ioe later.
Time since date of hire is just an easier metric.
So if you were hired in october and got off of ioe january, for example, and get a line in june, that's 8 months to hold a line, not 4.
Weekends was a figure of speech.

So you're saying its a year to hold a line because some guys dropped orders after indoc and aren't through training yet.
Okay.
What matters is time after indoc, not your metric that you just came up with.
With your goal posts, it's 5 months. FYI.

No, what I'm saying is the guy who is senior to you and had a delay in training and shows up on the reserve list two months after you will bump your stupid ass back down the list.
Hence his ioe to line can be 2 months and yours 5. Which is why it is customary to count the time to hold a line since the date of hire. Not a hard concept.

So if it is 5 months, and your first day of indoc was 9/10/18 then you've been holding a line since March? Woohoo, congrats.

I may not be with Envoy, but I am with BIZ on this... Dera, I t’s always been wise to base the time to hold a line since DOH..... There are a ton of variables if one is using since IOE completion such as training delays, how one person is progressing to become line qualified. But with using DOH, you have solid amount of data that will tell the story (ie multiple people in class).

You love to come up with your own "facts" do you?
My DOH was not 9/10/18. But yeah, those hires had a line in March.

Other airlines say "no reserve time", I just try to have a level playing field. But use whatever metric you want.

However you spin it, if you get the 175, you won't get to enjoy the famous award-winning reserve rules for long.

“Reserve time” is how much “time” one must be on “reserve”....
Isn’t this thread about pay raises?

My bad, add what, another month to that? Line in April? May hopefully? Can't wait.

any word on a meeting this afternoon with the company about pay?

New PSA Pilot Pay Agreement
 

(Whisper) Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh



(Whisper) The distraction is actually a good thing. ;)

Month, two for some, on reserve.

Was there supposed to be one?

I heard there was through the grapevine. Honestly i'm hoping y'all and piedmont get something.

Envoy Management has made a FIRM stance on not increasing pay. They have made it clear there is no incentives to do so.

A pay increase would keep here, but since there's a very small chance of that happening, I've got my apps out to LCCs.

I’m out soon
 

And that’s why I’m going cargo or lateral to another regional in a few months when my commitment is up. In the end, management here and all the way up to AAG is clueless when it comes to taking care of pilots as well as running a company I’d be proud to work for long term. But as many have stated, young kids keep showing up here for the 175, so nothing will change regarding the pay issue. Also, the flow at this point means nothing.

My flow is in about 18 months (maybe less with attrition) and I’m also interviewing elsewhere as we speak.

It’s all the little things adding up but the big one was the ORD crew that got fired. That, and pay not keeping pace with industry.

We aren't the only ones with the 175. Atleast 4 other regionals have them. Our recruiters just do a better job selling them.

Ahhhmmm, b.s.

Everyone likes to tout the 175s as why classes are full. While that may be a small part of the equation, the majority is our recruiting dept did a hell of a job recruiting cadets and rtp guys along with selling street hires on flow. You cant seriously believe the 175 is the only reason we have full classes.

You do make a point about them being great salesman. At least for the RTP community, most guys have passed onto their buddies that better options exist for that community of aviators. I don’t know if young cadets would take this advice and seek opportunities elsewhere.


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no not just that, but ignorance too.

Yep Envoy was very smart being at the front of the RTP side of things.

You have to hand it to them, the recruitment team circa 2016 had some good foresight which has paved the way for decent class sizes this far down the road. Credit where credit is due.

To your point — flow is likely going to be 7-9 years for a new hire today. Why would anyone new want to stick around for that? Sure, the promise a mainline job someday (assuming the flow doesn’t get slowed down or canceled due to financial woes at American) is better than none at all, but, say you do flow... you’re going to be very junior at AA (i.e. furlough risk). Speaking of financial woes, AAG is struggling right now when virtually every other airline is killing it in this economy. If they can’t perform and generate revenue during these good years, the future is quite ominous.

Anyway, I digress. The flow is a powerful recruiting tool but, under closer examination, it’s not all it’s cracked up to be for someone new today. Frankly, unless I was able to get to AA in the next few years and secure a seniority number in the massive turnover from retirements, I’d rather go to Spirit. They’re cutting into AA’s marketshare, much healthier financially, and outperforming them. The only thing that’d make gutting it out here tolerable to great is better compensation and work rules.

Has anyone heard what PDT was offered last week as far as rates go? I’m sure it was a take it or leave it scenario. I’d assume they will be offered the regular 50 seat rate that PSA agreed to and being that they don’t have a fleet to blend it will end up as a lower overall compensation package.

I think it’s telling that they haven’t announced anything after the meeting they were most likely not interested in the crap deal they were offered