rondonq1

Many example here on why envoy so bad now. The harshest treatment of pilots for a flow plan show here is not working. Flow never 5 or 6 years. People flowing today hired in late 2010. 9 year flow. Can you survive this 9 years for very little money and much work with big discipline for even small infraction?

Cyio

Not very easy to understand what you said here, but the flow plan does show flows getting down to 5 years for 2016 hires. Certainly we are not flowing 5-6 year people now as we are still moving through the ones that have been stuck here through BK.

I am certainly not cheerleading Envoy, but for a select few, they should see 5-6 year flows.

ag386

I think the point rondon is trying to make is that there never has been a 5 or 6 year flow and aside from maybe 30 or 40 guys, there never will be a 5 or 6 year flow. AA is very good about advertising this and it goes all the way back to the 90s. Nothing has changed. Just a new group of gullible guys who think their ticket has been punched.

The flow has moved along at min numbers now for a while. None of the PPs will see anything less 8 years. After that the numbers flowing drop drastically and there are more draconian measures in place to keep a lid on the flow. Unfortunately, what many are finding after the euphoria of escaping Envoy, is aside from the bigger paycheck, nothing much has changed. Doug Parker has singlehandedly wrecked AA and he isn't going anywhere.

When you have recruiters like skyline who are down on the company, you know things are bad. I'm sure that dera along with more of the new guy cheerleaders will be along shortly to try and debunk all of this.

SkylineAviation

Haha! I wasn’t even going to respond but where do you get the idea I am or ever have been a recruiter? Here’s a secret, I’ve never been a part of the recruiting department. I’m not up or down on anything, just providing numbers for upcoming hiring & flow.

Cyio

Eh, some of this I agree with, some I dont. There will be more than 40-50 that see sub six year flows, probably a few hundred. Listen, I am not proud that it is that low, but it isn't as bad as you are saying. The flow slowing after the PP's does slow for less than a year and than picks back up, all of which is accounted for in the plan.

The DP comment is spot on. I talk to a lot of mainline folks JS for the commute and they are all complaining about the same **** we are, aside from maybe crew scheduling, they all seem to say that is significantly better. DP needs to go as the company is worse off now than it has been. We are bottom metrics in virtually every category except maybe size. Its telling when Spirit ranks higher than AA.

NoValueAviator

Theory: when some of the fog-a-mirror ‘16 hires flow after 5 years and have issues at AA, AA “re-evaluates” the flow.

Cyio

Why would they have issues? ?

NoValueAviator

Pilot skills, study habits.

Ijustlikeflying

Oh give me a break. We’re all doing the same job. Everyone I talk to over at AA says their training is a hold your hand program compared to envoys.

Varsity

It is, but in 2016 Envoy was hiring literally anyone and everyone.

We are still living with the consequences of it.