negotiating with the wrong MGT
 

Envoy Management is talking with AAG every week on what to do. Why can't our MEC negotiate directly with AAG Management instead. My understanding of Envoy Management is basically AAG secretaries

ENY management made an agreement. Make them stick to it. There’s no need to negotiate anything.

Any truth to the rumor of an FO exodus to L3 for better pay?

If you mean the government contractor, doubtful. Maybe some will punch in the short term. The first year at a regional always has a fairly high attrition rate.

Those jobs do provide some incredible opportunities. But a pathway to a major is not one of them. Incredible pay. Can’t be touched by anything short of a major captain, several years in and great time off.

But, very few people can do that kind of thing for more than a few years at a time if that. People will always drift in and out of those jobs.

If you want to fly for a major, you need to fly 121. If you really need the money, contacting is a good way, but if you don’t have the type of time the majors are looking for, you will be back to a regional to get it. Maybe by then Envoy will have better pay, but you still have to look at the long term. What will get you to a major and that top tier pay soonest.

I know of a few guys looking into it, one was in middle of interview process.

It's all the RTP guys, L3 will pay off their current contract.

A lot of the RTP guys are now bailing for Flexjet, JetBlue, Spirit and some getting into legacy OTS. Recently upgraded or about to upgrade types.

Yeah. They have the clearance and now the ratings. Even without the payoff, the money is good enough. But like I said, it’s tough to do for more than a few years, and if you want to fly 121, you will be back to a regional.

A lot of them don’t care for 121. Look at the age of a lot of the RTP’s

Let’s face it, 121 isn’t for everyone and Envoy in particular can put a pretty bad taste in your mouth.

There are a lot of reasons for the high attrition rate the first year.

They’re not 1st year though. They’re the group that we’re stuck on reserve 12 months, then did another 12+ months and have upgraded or upgrading now. Not getting a pay deal done pushed a lot over the fence.

If that’s the case, nothing or minimal to pay back.

If there is an increase in senior FO/ junior CA, then maybe the company will finally start REacting, since that seems to be the only way anything happens.

Hopefully it is Captains that have gone through two upgrades and wasted more of the company’s money and training slots.

Bump
......

Envoy: The LOWEST paid Wholly Owned.
 

Another week will go by with nothing happening over the weekend. Rinse and repeat for the foreseeable future unfortunately.

Just a reminder it's been 20 days since the Piedmont pay raise. 42 with back pay included. 80/86 for PSA.

And not a word from the union or company

Company doesn’t care so long as they get enough critical coverage picked up and bodies keep showing up for class.

Not a word? Apart from every rep being under one roof yesterday answering questions?

So, for all of us who live out of town, or were working....we want to know. It's not that complicated.

I wonder if Swane Martin will make a video about how Envoy and AA management don't think his pilot group at Envoy are worth as much as his fellow wholly owned American Eagle pilots.
I hope you new hires realize how much you're valued. Have some self worth and fight for what's right. Single engine taxies and waiting to turn the APU shouldn't be a thing over at Envoy. Picking up OT like Swane Martin made a video about on youtube should not be happening. Doing favors for Envoy needs to stop.
Management takes advantage of the fact that we as pilots truly love aviation. This doesn't mean we should sit back and take it. Eagle pilots make American Airlines great. It's not the other way around just to be clear.

Man you are so lost, holy sh*t.

Picking up OT is the best thing you can do. You think it's doing Envoy favors? Hell no. With the reserve coverage we have, you really think Envoy is happy to pay 150-200% over guarantee, when they could just give it to a reserve guy who wouldn't break guarantee anyway and would fly for free.
Pick up that OT.

You obviously must be some new FO. Canceling flights costs more. No wonder they are jerking you guys around.

Exactly, we zero out daily. Why pick up ot?

I'll rephrase a bit:

For FOs that's the best thing to do. They don't cancel flights for not having FO's, they have plenty. Swayne Martin is an FO, I don't think he aimed his video to captains.

I just picked up a nice Toronto turn off OT. I get paid almost 10 hours for it - they have 20+ reserves. You think I did the company a favor?

Grab that OT, make them pay. For CA's, YMMV.

Swayne only aims for one thing....what gets him paid and more followers. Picking up OT (FO or CA) says sure, I'll come in on my day off cause you dont pay me enough, but I need this(because you dont pay me enough).

FYI, in this market, you dont need this. If they need staffing that bad, they need to up staffing (FUPM). Our attrition group is greater than our incoming group. Paying someone extra is a whole lot cheaper than cancellations. They will gladly pay for your day off.

Are you kidding me? PICKING OT HURTS YOUR PILOT GROUP.

What don't you understand. Paying out 200% means nothing. And yes if pilots didn't pick up OT or work on their days off it would hurt the company more than paying 200%. You are truly lost and you obviously weren't around the last time the Envoy pilot group was Fuqed in the ass. Swayne Martin is shooting himself in the foot and doesn't even realize it. I'd go further to say Swayne Martin and pilots like him are out for themselves. You're not gonna be an FO forever. And if they have plenty of FO's why are they offering OT? You truly are lost and need help understanding your part as a pilot in group of pilots.

I really hope that flow works out for you because it's really gonna suck sitting at Envoy getting paid less than your wholly owned brother and sisters.

Are you drunk? You want them to UP staffing? Holy Christ...

"Our attrition group is greater than our incoming group"? Is that why we have grown by 100 pilots in the past 6 months?

For FO's, picking up OT is a great way to get paid more. The flights would get covered no problem, we are overstaffed on the FO side.
They never run out of FO's. So pick up OT and make them pay more for it. And OT doesn't have to be on your day off. Most of my OT is tagged at the beginning or end of a trip.

I feel real sorry for the senior Envoy/Eagle guys who have to deal with FOs and or pilots like this Dera guy. You guys mad such head wind just to take 2 steps back with pilots like him.

Sorry, but your post doesn't make any sense.

I don't think you understand how open time works, and what it means.

You're saying that when I pick up a trip at 200% that would otherwise be assigned to a reserve next day for 0%, it's better for the company? That really does not compute.
Or get that commuter hotel out of base when you pick up OT out of domicile.
Or even better, during 200%, you can have the company pay for a hotel room in domicile. That surely helps the company too. I guess they collect hotel points for reservations?

Your logic is so flawed I can't even begin to argue with you.

Have fun being the Lowest paid wholly owned Eagle pilot group. And like I said I really hope that flow works out.

And like I said, you have no clue what you are talking about.

Fact is: For FO's, picking up OT is the best thing you can do. Too bad you don't understand how open time works at this company, so your comments are just laughable.

We have already established he’s a recruiting puke. He’s selling OT on all the threads to the new FO’s. “Oh it’s 200%!!! Extra hotels!!! Free money for nothing!!!” How many FO seats have critical OT for next month? Don’t kid yourself. You’re a piece of recruiting work and we all know it. Go back to selling “leading industry pay” and the shiny 175. Or better yet, disappear like you did the last time you sold out your coworkers. FUPM!

"We"? You joined what, a day ago. And have all of 2 posts? "We?"

Another troll with nothing to contribute. We my ass.

Yes or no:
Is it better for the company that you don't pick up that OT turn that opens at 6pm for next day and get paid 150% over your guarantee, than that the company will call a RAP at 4AM and assign that trip to him, that he gets to fly for free?

150% vs 0%? Sorry, but you're clearly a company troll if you think the 0% is better for the pilot group.
We are overstaffed on the FO side. Might as well get paid for flights.

Yes, let them burn their reserves. And leave all the open time...open... and unstaffed...which hurts them alot more than you getting an extra 15 an hour over straight pay.

Burn their reserves? How little do you know about the FO reserve list? It _NEVER_ runs out. They've zero'd out a few days in the past 6 months, and they still had the standbys. The only days when they ended up having no FO reserves, the flights cancelled because no of no CA.

150% or 0%? Simple answer. Which one is better?

So.....in hopes they dont have staffing on the CA side. Pick up OT just in case?

You didn't answer. 150% or 0%. Simple question.

0%. Stop trying to sell a quick solution to the problem you dip****s created. Stop getting your tiny, little brain all wrapped around 0% or 150%.

I see you are a company man. At least you're honest about it.

When dera comes up with ways to "really stick it to the company"

https://i.imgur.com/zI6paCV.jpg