I really hope I never have to fly with Dera

0%
Don't try to justify your choice by the greater good, dera.

Your choice is your choice, whatever.
But "they never run out of FOs" - bull****. Maybe currently in your seat.

I'm not. I'm just saying picking up OT isn't doing company any favors. It costs company more. They don't cancel flights because they don't have FO's.

So the common complaint is that reserves never fly.
The other one is how we are overstaffed with excessive reserves.
Now you're saying they run out of reserves?

Not sure what is going on.

They've ran out of reserves once in my seat this year. How about yours?

How does your union address grievances like this?

A company man would do exactly as you are. “Please pick up OT and help keep us going.” Drop the act and move on. You’re worthless on these forums and you’ve been called out numerous times.

Envoy doesn't need help, those trips would go to reserves otherwise. We don't cancel flights because we don't have FO's.

I mean, think about how delusional you sound: You complain how Envoy is overstaffed. Then you complain how we have way too many reserve pilots. But then you say how no-one shouldn't pick up OT because they run out of reserves.

Schrödinger's Reserve Pilot? Cannot pick up OT because they don't have enough pilots on reserve, while being overstaffed and they have too many reserves?

Sorry, your comments don't make any sense.

You are. It does. Than 125% yes, than another fo - no. They do.

Yeah, we’ve had months where they’d zero out on fo reserves 5-6 days a week. At least couple times a week is typical. And yet average flight time was still around 30 hrs per FO, around 50 for CA.

The company would love to trim down the % paid for the OT and take away certain types of OT pick up, but make no mistake, it is cheaper for the company to have the pilots fly on their days off than to have more pilots.
Case in point - look up the Spirit TRO from two years back.

PS Go look at the CRJ reserve list - zeroed out today, 3 avail for tomorrow so far with one turn sitting in the open

Wouldn’t it actually be 150% or 100%?
The company did have to actually pay reserve FOs some money, so someone sitting in that right seat has actually been compensated (very poorly compared to other WO) but I wouldn’t say that the flight was operated with $0 cost incurred to filling the right seat.

Let them use the reserves. Even if they never zero out, the company may feel some pressure to bolster the FO side a bit more than what they had, and find that it’s now slightly more difficult to attract applicants (non-cadets/RTP) to the lowest paid WO where management clearly undervalues us.


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Zeroing out the OT list the second they pop up isn't hurting the company or sticking it to them. It's showing that, even though your companions at PSA and PDT are getting paid more, you're still willing to lower yourself to 8 days a month to fly for less than them. You're telling the company your worth less and you're fine with 8 days off. It also shows how people need to pick it up because they are being paid so little off their normal garuntee. At 150% or 200% OT will never be hurting the company. You are just showing a willingness to be a company man when in return the company walks over you and away from agreements in writing. I'm not gonna tell anyone to pickup or not to pickup OT, but don't pretend you're hurting envoy, you're doing them a favor.

Agreed[emoji106]


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So can someone give some of the questions and answers that happened at the MEC meeting?

No, it's 150% or 0%. You never break guarantee off reserve, they are paying you to sit at home most of the month. So when they assign a trip to a reserve, it doesn't cost them anything. That guy gets paid, makes no difference if he flies or not. If you pick up OT, they pay you 150% above your monthly guarantee.

I'm not staying picking up OT is "sticking it", I'm just saying it's not a favor to the company. It costs them more. And you can pick up OT on your days on, that's how most of my OT this month has been.

Are you seriously suggesting this company needs more reserves? The common opinion here is that we are way overstaffed and have excessive reserves. Which one is it?

Be careful about how you talk with dera on here. It’s a good way to get reported if you say anything that can be construed as negative about him personally. Ask me how I know.

In my opinion, helping the company by picking up OT right now is kind of pathetic. Maybe critical coverage if you have an emergency. Company has tied pay to staffing.

Welcome back Dera, I see you are making yourself known again.

AA/Envoy give away what they pay you extra for OT in free booze each flight. Think about that. You are costing them nothing in terms of meaningful dollars. It’s a non issue for them so stop that argument.

This company has and will again canceled flights because they lacked FO’s, I’ve seen it. Please don’t throw out certainties that you can’t back up. Is it rare, yes, but it does happen.

Lastly, picking up OT is every pilots right and some guys need it to get by, which I think is the problem right. We shouldn’t have to depend on picking up OT just to get remotely close to what our peers get my hitting min guarantee.

The FO list that I’m on zeros out almost daily.

CRJ is an exception.
And remember, at 0, you still have standbys.
As a general rule, there are plenty of FOs at Envoy.

Any updates on what was said at the MEC meeting?

I second the question. :confused:

Care to share what was said?

Very long story short:

SP was much more optimistic about the situation than anyone here. He said it's a bit of a Mexican Standoff right now, but they are still talking.

He also said, that the company does recognize the need for change.

AAG wouldn't say (obviously they wouldn't, that would be a bad negotiating strategy) what the breaking point was. The deal included things like automatic confirmation of profferings for next day, 12 min days off for reserves and so on. They are working on it.

He also said (and I will get shXt for this but whatever) that the best thing you can do, is to act professional, do your job, and avoid negotiating in public. He said that one of the strongest arguments they have on that table is that we are the best performing AA regional, and that's why we deserve the best compensation.

He partly blamed Pedro for the situation - PSA and Piedmont have been telling AA that they have issues, Pedro has been saying "everything's a-okay, we are doing great".

Let's see how you guys spin this. None of these are my words or opinions.

Thanks for the info.

Don’t act like we spin your words just for the sake of doing it. So you were at these meetings?

I’m actually beginning to wonder if the union doesn’t know WTF to do.

Yet we're the only ones without a deal.... :confused::mad:

So you want the union to go running back to them and offer things to give up in order to get it done? The company needs this to get done more than we need it. They’re the ones who are going to see their staffing levels take a dive. It shouldn’t be up to ALPA to offer to give anything up that was agreed to. It’s not your fault or mine that Envoy screwed the pooch.

In fact, a very substantial group of pilots would be even more ****ed off if the union gave things up.

You're absolutely right; it's not your fault or mine that Envoy screwed the pooch. And yet, we are the ones that have to pay the price for it with basically the lowest pay in the industry and awful work rules.

WRONG!!! Unless what DERA is saying is in fact false, and Pedro HASNT been saying "everything's a-okay, we are doing great".

I hope you aren’t expecting the company/AAG to cave on the AIP because of staffing. What prevents the company from giving a 45k bonus to all new hires???

Definitely not the union.

^^This

Concessions of any sort shouldn't be in anyone's vocabulary in this environment. Especially since management will doubly take advantage next time. Hold the line.

Management is already “taking advantage” of the lowest paid and best performing WO.

I am going to say there is a 50/50 at fault here - the union went too far, should have just asked for no concessions and straight up pay increases only. That's what PSA and Piedmont got.

While it would have been nice, now we are getting delayed even further on the pay ...

Don't worry, you'll get back pay. Then you can go and buy yourself a new jetski.

Regardless of who is at fault, I believe the union doesn't know what to do. The answer to failed negotiations can’t be a do-nothing, business as usual, “cool down period.” And if the union is banking on low new-hire turnout to become their leverage, don’t forget what happened when the company needed DECs.

So the union should just roll over because others took the first shiny toy pit in front of them?

Fact is they had a signed deal and the company reneged.

We came too close to getting the goods to take concessions for the pay now. There’s blood in the rock, the NC found it.

There’s really A LOT more to it than just a “pay increase” let the union do their thing.

So close, right? But close only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades...

I thought there was more than just a pay increase involved for both PSA and PDT. Not major changes, but not “just a pay raise” either.