Gooselives

With Company Morale at an all time low in years. People on the line furious.

Poor management and union communication.

Flow about to slow dramatically and little movement for first officers soon.

This place is going to get BAD!

The ship is sinking FAST

Jeff90

I told everyone that went there this would happen, but no one listens they are gonna be American pilots!

TransWorld

After the Protected Pilots flow at 29 per month, the contract calls for 15 per month. Do you think they will negotiate the 15 up, just like they did for the Protected Pilots?

I recall similar statements of much lower flows in the contract, after the 824s, for the Protected Pilots. Then the reality of retirements and competitive environment set in.

What makes next year different than a year or so ago? Is the world ending? Are you serious, or are you a troll yanking our chain?

buddies8

Protested pilots were 25 per month before the change to 29. What you willing to give up to make 15 to 19.
Pay, ins premiums, vacation, trng pay, or all electing to flow to increase to 19 per month take a 20 percent pay cut.
You all knew, you were all told, you all still chose to come here because some 6 month rookie recruiter told you different. Enjoy.

highfarfast

I fail to see how stating what is in the contract now is 'trolling' or 'yanking your chain'.

However, his numbers aren't entirely accurate. Assuming AA has full classes every month next year, it's going to be closer to 200 than 180. There's only about 10 months worth of the group that goes at 15/mo. It's hard to give an exact number since the end of the PP group might extend into the first month of next year but it's likely going to be a little shy of 200. But if AA has a month or two where they have no classes (has happened every year so far), then it will be closer to that 180... and could be even less!

OK, maybe that last bit was trolling (but it's certainly possible).

FlyPurdue

I try to not comment on anything related to flow, but I think we all need to consider the following:

AA needs the flow to be valuable way more than any of us need the flow to be hired at a Legacy/LCC/Cargo. Envoy leadership has stated time and time again that the reason we have so little leverage is because of the flow. The second that the flow is no longer deemed valuable...8+ years, pilots getting held up for minor infractions, etcetera...pilots will immediacy go to XJet, Republic, Endeavor, Skywest, and all the sudden AAG must raise WO pay considerably more to remain pilot competitive.

Envoy management may hate the churn the flow creates, or even want to punish us, but AAG does not care. AAG needs the flow to be valuable. I don’t have any idea of how the math works to a 5.5 year flow. I’m clueless to Envoy’s refusal to share the model, as any leader knows the value of transparency.

Moral of the story - I am just guessing, but I don’t see the flow slowing at all.

highfarfast

Well, if that's the case, we shouldn't have to negotiate anything away for them to increase the flow.

Let's see how that works out.

mketch11

Expect 15 a month for the next group. The protected pilots settled a grievance for the extra flow (which also conceded later groups ability to grieve the interpretation of the initial flow agreement). As for straight up negotiating higher numbers, word from RW is that 29 a month is too high for the company’s liking and looks forward to the 15 a month in order to bolster the pilot ranks. While this is maybe not what the over optimistic folks like to hear, the sky isn’t falling because alpa flow projections have accounted for this all along. If you came here expecting something different then that is on you.

FlyPurdue

I absolutely do not think we should negotiate anything for the flow. In my opinion, the flow is worth approximately $10-20/hour to AAG.

dera

Pretty sure AA ran a class every month last year.
This year they will skip August for M80 displacements, but are planning to run December classes again.