Originally Posted by Cujo665

That’s just it, there weren’t. Not until PSA raised their hand.
2013-2018 was the bubble shortage while guys went from needing 250 hrs to needing an ATP. The places that took planes used it to advertise quick upgrades triggering lateral moves, recycling their seniority and allowing the whipsaw to continue.

Originally Posted by MEGAFUPM

Cujo get over it already. It's been 6-7 years. You don't even work here yet insist on telling the same PSA rant on every thread. Are you looking at your ex gf from high schools Facebook every night too? Move on.

Originally Posted by highfarfast

Frankly, I’d rather hear from Cujo tell about his experiences here working for the union than hear these PSA guys puff their chests out about how good they have it. They have their own subforum for that.

Originally Posted by highfarfast

I didn’t come to Envoy with any preconceived PSA animosity and when I heard stories from those that have been here longer, I initially took that as grudges from years gone by. But these PSA guys come across as having really thin skin with this stuff. We pick on Mesa quite a bit harder here than we do PSA and we don’t get flooded with Mesas guys trying to ‘defend their honor’. Makes this new the airline seen guy think why they protest so much.

Originally Posted by Cujo665

That’s just it, there weren’t. Not until PSA raised their hand.
2013-2018 was the bubble shortage while guys went from needing 250 hrs to needing an ATP. The places that took planes used it to advertise quick upgrades triggering lateral moves, recycling their seniority and allowing the whipsaw to continue.

Your guys screwed the industry and everybody else in it for self advancement on the backs of everybody else. Yep, that was a different pilot group.... yet, you’re over here spouting the exact rationalizations they did. You belong exactly where you are, and if you’re representative of the average PSA guy, then the group hasn’t changed and will screw anybody over so long as it help them.
Congratulations, you’ve validated the whipsaw again with a new generation.

Originally Posted by bigtime209

This is a brief outline of how history has unfolded at this airline over the past decade. I am 100% sure I’m leaving tidbits out and probably messing things up as I’m going primarily off of memory…So those of you that have been here longer than the Envoy days, please chime in.



Let’s go back to 2010. American Eagle begins hiring again for the first time since 2008. American Eagle is the sole wholly owned regional airline under the AMR corporation (what is today’s AAG) for American Airlines with more than 3,000 pilots. American Eagle operates over 90% of all regional flying for American Airlines with the small remaining amount of regional flying being operated by Chautauqua Airlines and Trans States Airlines out of ORD under the American Connection name. American Eagle operates coast to coast out of several domiciles including LAX, DFW, MIA, JFK, LGA, SJU, and ORD. BOS was also a domicile up until its closing less than 2 years prior in 2008.



AMR expressed a desire to divest, or spinoff, American Eagle. Meaning, they wanted to sell the airline and not own a regional airline anymore. Over the next couple of years American Eagle continued to hire heavily at the same time participating in negotiations on how a divesture would be carried out and handled. Everything came to a screeching halt in the fall of 2011. AMR announced that it would be filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. American Eagle then immediately stopped hiring and even ended up furloughing 60+ pilots.



At this point in bankruptcy, American Eagle pilots and ALPA faced 2 avenues. One would mean negotiating a bankruptcy concessionary contract with the Company OR proceeding with a Section 1113 hearing. The latter basically gives the power to the bankruptcy judge to decide which cuts and the value of said cuts on which the pilot group would take. Ultimately in an effort to keep the decision out of a bankruptcy Judge’s hands, the American Eagle ALPA Negotiating Committee negotiated an AIP which was subsequently passed as a TA and ratified by the pilot group as a $43 million concessionary contract. In 2012 pilot group begrudgingly accepted these concessions during bankruptcy in a hope avoid greater concessions from a judge and to move past this.



Fast forward to 2013. Us Airways Group and AMR announced that they would be merging. Us Airways brought along with it approximately 10 regional airlines between its two wholly owned carriers and contract carriers. The ink had barely dried on the American Eagle concessionary bankruptcy contract that was recently signed and the new AAG management demanded a second round of concessions due to the fact that its current regional carriers costs were substantially lower.



The American Eagle pilot group was obviously livid about this demand for two reasons. It had just accepted a round of concessions in bankruptcy and the new ATP requirements for pilot positions were obviously putting pilot candidates at a premium. ALPA regional carriers across the country signed a pact to vote no to any sort of concessions presented to each respective carrier going forth. All ALPA regional carriers signed this pact to vote no to concessions, except one: PSA. Many put their money where their mouths were. Expressjet voted no to concessions, Eagle voted no to concessions, Republic (while not technically an ALPA carrier) voted no to concessions. Airline management groups were desperately trying to get concessions and lock in low rates before the pilot shortage really gained traction. Initially the American Eagle MEC voted no to concessions. AAG’s lead negotiator, Jerry Glass, vowed to Comair II American Eagle if concessions were not accepted by the Eagle pilot group. This was in reference to Delta shutting down its regional carrier, Comair. AAG and Eagle management put pressure on the MEC to allow the pilot group to vote on the measure. Reluctantly, the MEC did present concessions to a pilot vote. The pilot group collectively voted no to any sort of further concessions.



AAG did not take kindly to this. Scott Kirby, President of AAG at the time, took this particularity personally. The journey to shutdown American Eagle was about to begin. AAG found a taker to accept concessions, PSA. The one single ALPA carrier that refused to sign the pact to accept no concessions. That airline took concessions and AAG placed a large order of CRJ 900s at PSA. In addition, AAG ordered the transfer of all CRJ 700s from American Eagle to PSA. AAG then began transferring Embraer 145s from American Eagle to Expressjet and Trans States. Furthermore, AAG decided to place the first 20 orders of Embraer 175 aircraft that were slated to go to American Eagle to Compass Airlines.



It was clear that AAG was doing everything in its power to be rid of American Eagle. In the process, the pilot group shrunk from 3,000+ to approximately 1,500 pilots. In a last ditch effort presented from management to the MEC, one last concessionary deal was offered up to the pilot group to vote on. The pilot group reluctantly voted it in. American Eagle would soon be Envoy Air in late 2014.



Over the following year or two, other regionals started raising their pay rates and benefits and began to flourish. AAG had felt good about locking in poverty level pay rates in exchange for a flow carrot. It was a failed experiment. After chasing away over 1,500 pilots from Envoy by demanding cuts, AAG realized that business plan was unsustainable. Prospective new hires began flocking to the likes of Endeavor, Republic and other airlines with higher pay rates. Shortly after, AAG WOs raised first year FO pay along with high FO retention bonuses. Fast forward from 2015 until present day, we’ve seen bandaid LOAs, RTP and Cadet programs and other sorts to keep a steady stream of new hires coming in the door. We all know what’s going on with the current negotiations and everything else. But the above should be a graphic illustration to how things change constantly and consistently. Anyone coming here putting all their eggs in the flow basket thinking things are going to stay exactly how they look right now for several years….well, I would think twice about that. The only sure thing about this airline game is that there is no sure thing and everything changes quickly and constantly. Hopefully this sheds a little light on the history of this joint for those of you who are new and don't know everything like dera...