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Us "young" guys

Old 07-04-2010, 08:59 AM
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Default Us "young" guys

Out of all this bickering and arguing going back and forth between everyone. The thing that bothers me the most is that we seem to be getting blamed for a lot of the bad stuff that is happening to our industry. These young guys this, and these young guys that....blah blah blah. I'm just tired of getting blamed by some for things that others created before we even got into the airlines. And because a few "young guys" didn't tuck in their shirt or it was a little wrinkled, or listen to thier IPod in the terminal (who cares anyway), or someone young kid didn't agree with the holy words that were coming out of your mouth, we all are considered "unprofessional" and looked down upon like we're some piece of street trash. Don't you remember that you were once where we are today? Its bad enough that we are already been beatin down because we are at the bottom which is part of putting in your dues, I understand that. I.E. furloughed, abused by scheduling and crappy schedules, lower pay etc. We don't need some senior guys putting us down either. There's nothing I can do about a few bad apples, for lack of a better term, so stop judging all of us. Just like I don't judge all Captains because I flew with one or two that thought they were God and I wanted to punch in the face. Just like there's nothing a Captain can do about the few "bad apples." Its like some of you are mad at us for not having to put years and thousands of hours instructing or flying some crappy twin around before we got to the airlines. I know that if you were in our shoes, you would have done the same thing. If anything, we need our senior pilots and Captains to mentor us and show us the things that maybe we don't know. Guide us to become the great, professional pilots that you guys are. I always welcome some good advice and I know that my fellow "young guys" do as well. Most of the guys I flown with have been great so sorry if it seems I am putting you there as well. I feel strongly enough about this that I wanted to share my thoughts with everyone and wanted to see what you guys have to say.
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Old 07-04-2010, 09:08 AM
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The regional industry is too messed up. There are a lot of hardships between regional pilot groups. The economy, family hardships etc. Most have very low QOL, a few hate their lives, and so generally people tend to be miserable. That will be projected to fellow pilots, mostly junior ones. Don't look into the bickering that goes on this forum though as you mentioned in the first sentence, this place is where people come to blow off some steam. But generally people are not happy, especially during these times.
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Old 07-04-2010, 09:09 AM
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Well, if you want to be treated as a fellow professional:

1. Put on your hat.
2. Wear your uniform correctly and with pride.
3. Lose the iPod when you are in the terminal.
4. Get some luggage instead of your backpack.
5. Listen more than speak.

That should about do it.

P.S. Your comment "who cares anyway" pretty much sums up why the "old guys" look down on you.
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Old 07-04-2010, 09:30 AM
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It's hard to care when you are getting paid $20,000/year. And don't bring up the old "the reason you are getting paid $20,000/year is that you don't care" mantra. Thats BS and irrelevant and you know it.
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Old 07-04-2010, 09:32 AM
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Agreed 100% and do care on everything except #3. With the exception of walking up the gate like that. I guess we'll agree to disagree.
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Old 07-04-2010, 09:37 AM
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You determine what you're worth. If you don't want to work for $20k a year, find another career. A PROFESSIONAL presents themselves as a PROFESSIONAL regardless of his paycheck.

Therefore, if you don't care, you aren't professional. Its simple logic. If you can't be bothered to present a professional image to the public, how much confidence do you think you generate in your "professional" flying and judgment skill sets.

Not much.

I was waiting to jumpseat on a regional flight recently. One of the passengers was complaining to the CSA that United sold him his ticket and he expected to be on a United airplane with a United crew.

That speaks volumes.
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Old 07-04-2010, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by RAH RAH REE View Post
It's hard to care when you are getting paid $20,000/year. And don't bring up the old "the reason you are getting paid $20,000/year is that you don't care" mantra. Thats BS and irrelevant and you know it.
As a professional pilot I don't care to work for $20,000 per year and so I don't even entertain doing that. If you only value your skills at $20,000 per year then I doubt you are a professional. Not trying to be harsh just blunt.
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Old 07-04-2010, 09:49 AM
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The thing that bothers me the most is that we seem to be getting blamed for a lot of the bad stuff that is happening to our industry.
I am a little torn in relation to this statement. Part of me is heck yeah you are part of the reason this industry is going to the dogs. Accepting extremely sub-par wages in the rush to fly a jet and finally "make it" combined with the sense of entitlement that plagues our generation certainly does not help matters and seems to play into managements hands in offering McDonalds wages for the same positions other parts of the world offer 3 times the starting salary to fly the same piece of equipment.

Then again, as a twenty something aspiring career pilot, i agree many of the ills of our current situation are from the older generation selling us a fecal sandwhich. I believe the situation may improve as the current cop of regional captains moves onto bigger and better things and the stagnation of age 65 and economic downturn correct themselves.

I'd also like to point out that its never too early to mentor a fellow pilot. Even if your a first year regional f/o you have the opportunity to tell the CFI at the flight school the reality of the situation and not to put all their career expectations in a fast track to a regional. There are many good jobs in 135 and 91 that pay a livable wage and give you a balanced level of experience.

Happy 4th of July!
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Old 07-04-2010, 09:51 AM
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A professional uses paragraphs for his/her rants.

/end snark

Seriously though, "young guys" aren't the reason for the decline in the profession - management and boomer-era pilots who sold away scope over the last two decades are.

That said, "young guys" don't do themselves any favors by having an attitude of entitlement, not wearing their uniform per their FOM/GOM (let alone with an ounce of pride), having white earbuds in their ears while walking around in front of passengers in a terminal, finding every excuse under the sun to not press their shirt(s) at least once a 4-day trip, and did I mention having an attitude of entitlement?

Everybody knew the level of compensation when they accepted their regional airline job - it wasn't a secret. If people would take a little more responsibility for their own situation and whine a little less more about it, our profession and our world would be a better place.

I'm a "young guy" myself - I'll be 27 next month - but the only thing that drives me nuts more than a boomer casting blame on my generation is when people in my generation seem pleased to live down to that denigrating boomer stereotype. So don't be that guy!
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Old 07-04-2010, 09:53 AM
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Fishfreighter,

Valid points about our appearance to the public. You're right; some f/o's (myself at one point) take enough flak for 'looking too young', so we have to at least offset the public's judgements as best we can with things we can control, like the list you mentioned

Not to put words in the thread-starter's mouth, when I began reading this thread I thought of the very small subset of senior CA's who believe that 'years of experience' are some kind of a substitute for situational awareness and a safe attitude. Yeah, they're wearing their hat, their shirt is pressed, they smile and greet passengers, but running a checklist is beneath them. Those are the kind of idiots I can't stand. If you want me as an f/o to improve on something that I'm doing, give me constructive feedback. Don't hold me to a 'by the book' standard, and then do whatever you want outside profile. Just don't be a hypocrite because you're 'senior'. I like learning from the experienced guys, really, I just think some of them are sick of the revolving door of junior f/o's.

However, about the "UA sold me the ticket, I want to fly on UA" passenger: Those kinds of people would probably whine if they bought a ticket on united.com that was a CO/US mainline codeshare. Still though, very interesting point.
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