Monass74

So you’re saying the flow is useless at the moment ?

NoValueAviator

Well, if you're unhireable at the majors without it then it may still be very valuable. The idea of having a seat at AA and having a good career without having to stress about getting hired like you would at any other regional is gone though. Starting at Envoy now, the flow as it currently exists will drop you right behind the biggest retirement/hiring spree likely to occur in our lifetime and you'll spend your whole career very junior. So you'll be frantically trying to get hired by a major here just like everyone at SkyWest, Republic, Endeavor, etc. etc., only they'll be making a lot more money and enjoying higher QOL mostly from superior work rules/soft pay.

Monass74

So it’s staying junior and not having to worry about being hired by majors (although i would be the junior of juniors there for a long time) vs. elevating through a “better” regional and having a better QOL but staying worried about my future with majors. This is where making a decision becomes so hard ! 😄

NoValueAviator

Yeah, I came here and see it as a mistake. Although it would be an even bigger mistake to leave now. The flow could change to be valuable again, too. Who knows. Good luck with your very difficult decision.

Monass74

Thanks, may i ask what made you regret your decision? The thing that makes me hesitant the most about Envoy is it’s reserve time and the flying hours you get on reserve. Especially since i would be getting 145 90% chance since i’m neither a candidate nor that old.

dera

You need to look further down the line than just your first 2-10 months after IOE on reserve.
First 12 months off IOE, you'll get anywhere from 300 to 1000 hours. And you'll spend somewhere around 2 to 10 months on reserve. All depends on luck, timing, and luck. Last classes have been heavy on the 175. Next class might be 100% 175 or 100% 145, no-one knows.
That's what people mean when they say it's like two airlines. It really is. The 175 side is sweet. People on the 145 are much less happy. Unless they live in base. Then they don't complain much.

It is not a bad place if you live in base. I don't see many reasons to commute for Envoy.

pitchattitude

Timing really is everything. Some of it is predictable and some is not. There are more lines in the summer. The month of December also has a slight uptick for the winter. If you finish IOE in mid April or more likely mid May, you might hit things just as the lines are increasing and that wave and the seniority you gain over the summer will keep you with a line. By contrast if you finish in late November, too late to bid for December, you get reserve for December, then the lines go down in January through April. So even though you gain seniority it’s not enough to outpace the drop in lines until May. Something much less predictable is the movement of flying between bases and the bid cycle and where the company parks people. That can have a big impact on staffing and how many are on reserve somewhere.

The next rub comes with the forced upgrade. You fly a lot as a FO, so you upgrade before your peers and if you were an FO on the 175, that likely means getting bumped to the 145 involuntarily. If you choose to not accept the lock so you can bid back to the 175, that probably happens about the time you COULD have started holding a line in the 145. But if you want back on the SNJ, it means back to reserve for a while.

Tyrion

First 12 months off of IOE, you won't get anywhere near 1000 hours, but 300 is probably likely, especially on the 145. How long you spend on reserve is more a factor on which base you want.

Reserve and low time lines are just the facts of life at The Envoy. With over 600 pilots on reserve, we have more pilots on reserve than other companies have total pilots. For the lineholders, there are 100s of lines that credit less than 75 hours, not ideal for building the resume.

Choosing a regional should really be about how will it get you to your end goal. If your goal is someplace like Spirit or JetBlue, your path should take you through a regional that will fly your butt off, upgrade, fly your butt off some more, and move on in 2 years. If you live in New York, Chicago, or Dallas, and you are okay with taking your time to go to AA in 5-7 years, then Envoy makes some sense.

dera

All of this comes down to one thing. If you commute, it all sucks. If you don't, it can be good.

You can fly like a mofo' on your year 1 if you get the 175, and if you get lucky with timing. That way you will get displaced to the 145. It's not bad as long as you don't commute (and don't live in MIA). Even as a CA, as of now every base(sans MIA) is attainable within the first 15-16 months from DOH. You might commute for a bit after displacement, but not for too long, before you get back to your domicile (as long as it's not MIA).

If you get the 145 initially, things flip around. You will start with hardly flying at all. And you will spend 8+ months, if you are lucky, on reserve. After you get a line, you will fly a lot more, but likely will need around 2.5 years post DOH before you hit your upgrade hours.
Now, here's the switch. The 145 guys can very likely hold 175 by the time they hit their hours. Or you can stay in NY or MIA if that's where you live.

Bottom line. It's not a bad gig if you don't commute. But if you don't live in DFW/ORD/NYC, why are you considering Envoy?
I excluded MIA from this, because who the heck knows what they are doing with that base. A new hire got awarded MIA FO last summer, and he is STILL the bottom on the list.

dera

"especially on the 145" being the key point there. More 175 than 145 new hires lately. Do you feel lucky?
On the 175, close to 1000 12 months past IOE is doable. 145 not so much.

To your last comment. That's what I'm doing. Envoy has been the right choice.
YMMV.