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Originally Posted by But seriously
(Post 3083873)
I’m going to have to disagree with the apparent consensus here. This downturn will likely prove to vastly increase the value of the flow. If your goal is to get to a Major, it appears that UAL and DAL may be a good 5-6 years away from taking new hires again. AA is probably 1-2 years. That means there will be a good few years where AA is the only game in town. During that time you’ll have WO pilots taking up around half of all the new hire slots at the only major hiring. That’ll both help those flowing, and those below them (movement).
Obviously no one is going to flow in the time they hoped (or were promised), but no one is getting street hired anywhere with 300 TPIC anytime soon either. The comparative value of the flow, in my opinion, has gone up, not down. Also, for those saying the seniority is meaningless... Seniority is QOL and pay at the job you currently hold. If you’ve never been in aviation during a downturn, then here’s my two cents: Make the best of the job you have. You never know how long you’ll be here. |
Originally Posted by NoValueAviator
(Post 3083774)
What good is seniority at a temporary gig like Envoy? If you had your retirement job it'd be different, but in the long run who cares if you're junior or senior here except inasfar as it determines how quickly you get out (ability to get TPIC, etc.)
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Originally Posted by But seriously
(Post 3083873)
I’m going to have to disagree with the apparent consensus here. This downturn will likely prove to vastly increase the value of the flow. If your goal is to get to a Major, it appears that UAL and DAL may be a good 5-6 years away from taking new hires again. AA is probably 1-2 years. That means there will be a good few years where AA is the only game in town. During that time you’ll have WO pilots taking up around half of all the new hire slots at the only major hiring. That’ll both help those flowing, and those below them (movement).
Obviously no one is going to flow in the time they hoped (or were promised), but no one is getting street hired anywhere with 300 TPIC anytime soon either. The comparative value of the flow, in my opinion, has gone up, not down. Also, for those saying the seniority is meaningless... Seniority is QOL and pay at the job you currently hold. If you’ve never been in aviation during a downturn, then here’s my two cents: Make the best of the job you have. You never know how long you’ll be here. Trust me, I hope you are right, I just dont think you are. |
Originally Posted by Ciceda
(Post 3083914)
Seniority is king during a downturn no matter where you work. What ever seniority you were once March of this year hit, expect to stay there for a long long time.
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Where is Charlie Bucket?
Originally Posted by Ciceda
(Post 3083914)
Seniority is king during a downturn no matter where you work. What ever seniority you were once March of this year hit, expect to stay there for a long long time.
I too am shocked the advise being given indirectly is that SENIORITY DOES NOT MATTER AT THE REGIONALS! A few on here have been warning pilots. Envoy can become a career destination unintentionally! Especially as mainline hiring trends & various corporation & society clout towards diversity, not to talk future economic down cycle/ geo political issues & future regulatory mandates for the airlines since the Gov’t own I dear say 50 billion in grants/loans/warrants. Folks SENIORITY MATTERS NO MATTER THE AIRLINE! |
Originally Posted by Cyio
(Post 3083923)
I would like to add, this is exactly why you always want to push for pay increases over bonuses, qol changes that are contractual and good solid contract language.
Thank you!!! Exactly! When you believe it’s a career & you treat it like a career you expect from the company more! This is why Mainline loves & promulgates flow at the WO. to SUBVERT demands for better contract, 401k, and long-term QOL/reserve improvements! Flow = AAG’s tool and not the other way around! They have always had the leverage! Careers focus is why Skywest and Republic pilots have better contracts, QOL, and overall pay (bonus/profit sharing/ etc)! Seniority and QOL advancements at Envoy should have been MEC’s focus over the past 3-4 years, not FLOW. Envoy will always flow when AA needs it. Make AA want to flow envoy pilots with a better contract and longevity pay at envoy. |
Originally Posted by SilentLurker
(Post 3083997)
Thank you!!!
Exactly! When you believe it’s a career & you treat it like a career you expect from the company more! This is why Mainline loves & promulgates flow at the WO. to SUBVERT demands for better contract, 401k, and long-term QOL/reserve improvements! Flow = AAG’s tool and not the other way around! They have always had the leverage! Careers focus is why Skywest and Republic pilots have better contracts, QOL, and overall pay (bonus/profit sharing/ etc)! Seniority and QOL advancements at Envoy should have been MEC’s focus over the past 3-4 years, not FLOW. Envoy will always flow when AA needs it. Make AA want to flow envoy pilots with a better contract and longevity pay at envoy. Heard there is a Flowthru/Flowback provision in the works. |
Originally Posted by AB321Driver
(Post 3084196)
Heard there is a Flowthru/Flowback provision in the works.
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Originally Posted by AB321Driver
(Post 3084196)
Heard there is a Flowthru/Flowback provision in the works.
Now you all want to talk about merging the pilot group and forming a single union, something good for all, we can talk about flow backs. |
Originally Posted by AB321Driver
(Post 3084196)
Heard there is a Flowthru/Flowback provision in the works.
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