As someone else has said the pilots over here at PSA have been a hard no on concessions. Honestly its been a hard no even on temporary relief under the guise it would save furloughs. Even when the company came back and rescinded increasing the numbers of warn for furloughs the vast vast majority of this pilot group has the mentality of do not give them anything at all. Let it play out as it is especially since its been a one way road with management.

I've heard the stories of what has happened in the past and I can tell you from what I've seen first hand under a mostly new pilot group it is not going to be like that again. Let AAG and the WO suffer the consequences of their actions.

Y'all have transfer of assets clauses in your contract, I hope?

Envoy I believe did until bankruptcy.

What assets? Are we talking Envoy? Or AAG?

Yes I think pre bankruptcy Envoy (Eagle back then) owned all of the aircraft. The assets were all transferred to AMR and someone brought up the fact that the pilots should should go with the airplanes. Who knows how serious it would have gotten and I think ALPA was starting proceedings to protect our successorship but the MEC dropped for (you guessed it), more flow.


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Envoy is a staffing agency. They own nothing. It’s all in AAG’s name.

It happened way before bankruptcy. That was the origin of the Protected Pilot agreement (2011). They didn’t achieve “more flow”, they got flow through. Prior to that agreement those pilots had no career progression to AA at all.

It was still a bad deal, but, as I recall, it was put to a pilot vote and approved overwhelmingly. No one really understood the mistake we had made until bankruptcy though.

Thanks, knew I was a little hazy on some of the details


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Didn't used to be.

By the way, I tried that very argument with ALPA legal that the RLA didn't apply to us since we were just a staffing company with in-house training. They actually kicked it around for about a week, before deciding not to pursue it, and for one reason. It's the same reason that repudiates the "staffing company" position. The fact is, Envoy holds an FAA Air Carrier Certificate, which makes it an airline, not a staffing company. The fact that the current business model is to fly somebody else's airplanes doesn't mean they cant fly their own, like they used to.

This is partially correct. That flow was the result of a grievance arbitration. There was no pilot vote. The subsequent ones were all done by pilot votes as contract amendments.