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-   -   What’s the point of FLOW? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/131890-whatis-point-flow.html)

Cyio 01-02-2021 04:49 PM


Originally Posted by Cujo665 (Post 3177328)
that article is six months old, not two years. They didn’t even get the FAA approvals until around May 2020. I think they got it out of bankruptcy in December 2019. They actually are engaged in one project currently, but you’d have to dig harder to find it and it won’t be competition for Eagle.... yet

how long has it taken Breeze to get going, except they aren’t either yet.... Wexford bought it, brought in proven leadership and is rebranding for a new launch. Same company that turned Republic around.

Yeah you are correct. I went and reread it and I flipped a date around, my bad.

Excargodog 01-02-2021 06:33 PM


Originally Posted by Cyio (Post 3177348)
Yeah you are correct. I went and reread it and I flipped a date around, my bad.

And like Breeze, they are heading for an environment of pilot surplus - at least in the short term - and both cheap used and new ‘white tail” aircraft availability. Either by dumb luck or smart thinking, it looks like they timed this well.

Finessed 01-02-2021 08:58 PM


Originally Posted by coodrough568 (Post 3176382)
and somehow you think that if AA files chapter 11, the other two won’t? It only takes one domino to fall and everyone is gonna want that cheap labor/debt reduction.

You need to do some research before making a reply post. DL and UA have substantially less debt and cash burn, and will survive much longer. Concessions have been made at both DL and UA for reasons that you’re not going to enjoy hearing. The reality is 2018-2019 pax loads won’t be achieved again until 2023 and potentially beyond. MAYBE we’ll see profit from a few by the end of 2021, maybe. The only CEO who believes in a quick recovery is DP, which is extremely unlikely.

Doug’s been blowing a lot of smoke lately so I wouldn’t take his words to seriously.

https://onemileatatime.com/americans-ceo-claims-the-airline-will-never-lose-money-again/

Varsity 01-03-2021 03:54 AM


Originally Posted by Finessed (Post 3177389)
You need to do some research before making a reply post. DL and UA have substantially less debt and cash burn, and will survive much longer. Concessions have been made at both DL and UA for reasons that you’re not going to enjoy hearing. The reality is 2018-2019 pax loads won’t be achieved again until 2023 and potentially beyond. MAYBE we’ll see profit from a few by the end of 2021, maybe. The only CEO who believes in a quick recovery is DP, which is extremely unlikely.

Doug’s been blowing a lot of smoke lately so I wouldn’t take his words to seriously.

https://onemileatatime.com/americans...e-money-again/


Doesn't matter if they burn less cash. It's a commodity market. If AA guts all their labor contracts in a bankruptcy court, UA and DL will be unable to compete with their old rates.

Any decent accountant can engineer a bankruptcy.

Huell 01-03-2021 04:06 AM


Originally Posted by pangolin (Post 3176005)
... 737s coming to Mesa ... !

Just the very thought of that scares me ... and I don’t scare easily.

Claxstarr 01-03-2021 06:01 AM

What’s the point of FLOW?
 

Originally Posted by Cujo665 (Post 3176896)
it’s already been formed. Is still under the radar. Has Wayne Heller as their CEO (formerly of Republic). The parent company is the one that saved Republic, Wexford Capital. They’ll be in a great position to pick up new CPA flying. If you dig around hard, you may find a press release from the middle of last year or so. Other than that, they’re still under the radar.


Sounds like you’re talking about sterling airways...
https://flysterlingairways.com/news/

Wexford went chp 11 and restructured to buy Via in hopes of gaining their certificates operational status again...
Looks like they only owned one e145 and dry leased a couple other 120/145.

I hardly think they’re poised to picking up new CPAs since United has clearly signed the death certificate for the 145.

Anyone picking up new flying would most likely have owned airframes, an excess of trained and current pilots, a nationwide maintenance system, and cash in the bank....
not many fit that description.

Doesn’t look to me like AA is in a position to bargain on something like sterling.

Excargodog 01-03-2021 06:34 AM


Originally Posted by Varsity (Post 3177417)
Doesn't matter if they burn less cash. It's a commodity market. If AA guts all their labor contracts in a bankruptcy court, UA and DL will be unable to compete with their old rates.

Any decent accountant can engineer a bankruptcy.

Cash burn ALWAYS matters. And what may matter even more is the TYPE of flying that comes back first. If international flying doesn’t come back fairly quickly, UA, DL, and AA are ALL stuck with ownership or lease costs on very expensive aircraft designed and optimized for that purpose that compete far less well on domestic compared to the single type LC/ULCC airlines.

And that is cash burn even if you leave them parked. AA spent $333 million in debt service alone in the third quarter, an amount that can only rise as their bonds come due and need to be financed at higher rates. Bonds coming due were financed at rates of 2.5 to 3.5%. Last bonds AA sold had a coupon of 11.75% and still didn’t sell at par, resulting in AA paying 12% interest on the money.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...l-to-2-billion

Refinancing expiring bonds at that sort of rate gets ugly quickly.

While any decent accountant can engineer a bankruptcy it’s the secured bond holders that wield the biggest stick once the bankruptcy happens.

THKooj 01-03-2021 07:39 AM


Originally Posted by Cyio (Post 3177348)
Yeah you are correct. I went and reread it and I flipped a date around, my bad.

Yeah, your bad brah.

It's just indicative of your MO in how you twist things around to suit your narrative until someone calls you out.

Either that or you are just pulling all of these "facts" out of thin air.

Slow2Final 01-03-2021 08:56 AM


Originally Posted by THKooj (Post 3177480)
Yeah, your bad brah.

It's just indicative of your MO in how you twist things around to suit your narrative until someone calls you out.

At least they corrected themselves after something was pointed out. When do you plan on doing that?

Cyio 01-03-2021 09:17 AM


Originally Posted by THKooj (Post 3177480)
Yeah, your bad brah.

It's just indicative of your MO in how you twist things around to suit your narrative until someone calls you out.

Either that or you are just pulling all of these "facts" out of thin air.

You’re an idiot. End of story. I didn’t make anything up, I just thought they formed a year earlier. Hardly a mis-telling of truths or fabrication like the stuff you post.

Nice try though, I will patiently wait for your next failed attempt as at this point it’s all just a game for me calling you out


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