Comprehension, a lost art.

It's in 18-01.

"lesser of"
and
"times the number of calendar months in that calendar year in which American actually hired pilots."

If one month Envoy sends 0, they are still restricted by the 25% at the end of the year, or 20 ish/month based on the pilot group size.

So if AA does not hire from January to May, but then hires for 6 months until the end of the year, Envoy has to flow around 120 pilots that year. 0 until May, 20 until December. Lesser of then is the 20 a month, times the number of months AA hired, 6 = 120 that year.

Extreme example to clarify this. If AA hires for one month, Envoy will send 20 pilots that year.

Don’t negotiate for what you’ll eventually get anyway. As the shortage worsens they’ll speed up flow to attract new pilots. Also, get rid of the language that allows them to send more if THEY choose. When they NEED to increase flow it will become a bargaining tool that they have to ask the union. Use it to increase the minimum flow, and to get back the 50% of all new hire positions... adding in.... of each class. Forget by month, quarter or year. You want it per class.

Market forces will dictate flow numbers. AA wont negotiate them until they need it. Envoy has no say on it, because they need to keep parity with PSA and Piedmont.

We're already behind PSA and Piedmont, who are flowing 2016 hires. Envoy still has 2013 hires on property waiting to go.

They are not looking at DOH, they just look at % of pilot group in class. Envoy hiring profile was way different from PSA/PDT, who weren't even part of it all in 2013. Their sweet spot for flow is just different from Envoys.

Piedmont’s next pilot to Flow is a July 2015 hire date. Won’t flow the first 2016 pilot until late 2022.

Oh cool, we are starting to get somewhere.
Let's do a read along together.
18-01 says "5. With respect to the provisions concerning “Pilots Hired After DOS” in Letter 15-01 (Page 7), Envoy and the Association hereby confirm that the accurate interpretation and application of those provisions is as follows:
...
• If American is entering new hire pilots into training in a given calendar year, Envoy will release Envoy pilots, to permit them to participate in American new-hire training classes, in an amount that is the lesser of (a) twenty-five percent (25%) of all new pilot positions at American that are filled in the relevant calendar year; or (b) five (5) new pilot positions at American (increased by one for every 125 pilots above the base number of 480 on the Envoy pilot seniority list) times the number of calendar months in that calendar year in which American actually hired pilots."
In other words, it's good that you actually read it, but the language in there doesn't say what you say it does.

Say AA hires 300 in the first six months of a year then another 600 in the last 6 months of a year minus December.
You say 12x6 + 20x5 = 172, right?
I say the lesser of 900x0.25 = 225 or 20x11=220 - which would be 220 in this case.

As a friendly reminder, you still owe me a beer from the last exercise in document digging.

So you are flowing 18 a month. Where is the catchup? Sending 0 for 6 months and then 35 the next months does not change your flow date.
The post you originally replied to was where I said if AA is hiring 660 a year, Envoy will then flow 13.75 a month. Or 15 a month if they hire 720 a full year. The only way the catchup works is if they drastically ramp up their hiring mid year, but it's not relevant to any of the scenarios that were discussed.
And what management is doing, let's just say, don't hold your breath on that happening.

You never claimed the beer. It's on me, just lmk.

I think management will be 💩 ‘ing themselves the next 12 months. They really are clueless. If they don’t fix the flow to something manageable, no will stay and worse for them, no one will come. The training department will be the key. I think we’ll still see mid seniority attrition, but if the upgrade classes can keep up, i think they’ll flow all they can because it’s the only shot they have of tricking 23 year olds into coming here

it's all nitpicking really as the contract discusses the minimums they have to flow and specifies they can always flow more at their discretion.
Just pointed out the "calendar year" that snuck into the DOS language.

Geography isn't very conductive for a beer, but I'd gladly buy a round or two also. Good luck at the new gig!

this has been done to death. People still stay, and people still come.

If AA hires zero for the next 10 years, how many will Envoy flow? Answer - Anyone who speculates that is an idiot.

All the majors, AA included, are starting to hire balls to the wall, by this fall. And they will have to sustain it for mandatory retirements and even very modest growth. You can speculate all you want.

exactly, the market will push them to want to make the flow better and more attractive as a means to keep their regionals staffed.
The three MEC’s need to get their act together on this before it’s too late.

There are those who have tried to encourage the 3 MECs to work together for a long time. And the 3 MECs all have their own interests, vulnerabilities, and pilots to look out for. Truthfully I think the 3 pilot groups should push for integration. Collectively, it would give them much more security and bargaining power to be a bigger entity.

Lol I was hired at PSA November 2016 and have at least 2-3 years left before flow.

There’s probably more than a few line pilots that would be ok with this.

2/3 of the redundant WO regional management will end up on the street eventually if we did something like that. Shareholders would love it probably. I'm shocked AA hasn't already done it but it seems like the only thing they're good at now is selling miles.

When you’re basically making minimum wage, you do what you have to. It is pretty shameful.

Cant miss the limited time offer though!

Only been going on for 4 years now! Get it quick!

Yeah, that 60000 miles and to days 500 every f'n leg. They get commissions while pilots get nothing.
and they want me to avoid big white puffy clouds

If you want some of the action, maybe you should start including the sales pitch in your PA and stand in the back while passengers deplane and hand out CC applications.

"If you sign up with me ladies and gentlemen, I'll sign your boarding pass on the way out!"

welcome to the 90’s, V2.0

Just read the latest Flow MOU that was discussed in the recent closed meeting and talked about on the last call in. It basically is a pointless document. It only applies to the individuals already selected to flow (44 pilots) and just says that they will flow as previously agreed. The only thing that MIGHT make any changes is anyone in that group that for some reason bid over to the 175 in the past year and incurred a one year training freeze.

Doesn’t say anything about percentages, numbers per month, any modifications to the flow agreement or even any future discussion on the flow agreement or anything like that.

The flow MOU was just to clarify the intent that they wont re-select flows and screw over a couple of pilots because a few others were released from their self induced seat locks during COVID.

I’m sure for the literally less than a handful of people this affects, it means something. But that something wouldn’t even affect those few by more than a few weeks. Yes, I know. If it’s you, even two weeks is two weeks.

My point was this doesn’t affect the overwhelming majority of the pilots and it certainly doesn’t change any numbers as some of the posts were alluding to or wondering about.

It affects like 6 people. It has no meaningful effect on anything related to flow for the pilot group. One time thing.

Unless you're one of the 6.
you ain't getting increase in numbers for flow.
It is what it is.

They'll increase it as a means to attract pilots rather than provide meaningful wage and working condition improvements. I sat at the table with Kirby, Isom, Hashimoto and Pedro... they will use the flow as a recruiting tool. It costs them nothing. You could see the wheels spinning in their heads when we talked about extra flow language after the L10-11 crowd. They knew exactly what they had and how it would benefit them in the future.
Don't give them anything for what you'll get anyway as the shortage worsens.

Why increase it when they already grossly underestimate time to flow on recruiting material? 5-7 years to flow sounds appealing, and by the time they realize it probably will be longer they're already invested.

Does anyone know how many people flowed in AAs most recent class this past week? I couldn’t find the number.

AA had a new hire class, or was it a recall of those previously in class?

Pretty sure this was the flow class from March 2020 that finally started training at American. They “left” the regional but never started training. Those named are grayed out out on our seniority list until they graduate training at mainline. Then they disappear.

How many envoy flows are going to be on the Sep 22nd class at AA?

All the furloughs who were scheduled last year