Been closer to 25 past 2 months. So it is trending better.

Your methodology is flawed. It seems to be based on an assumption that AA will only hire enough bodies to cover mandatory retirements in 2022 (~600), assuming that no one checks out before 65, and that AA doesn’t try to grow back to its pre-March 2020 size. Frankly, if we assume that AA is going to go back to hiring 900-1000 a year to remain competitive, our flow is closer to 19-20/month based on our current list and LOA 18-01.

Nothing is stopping anyone here from applying to another legacy and getting hired if they can present a competitive application (undergrad degree, command time, union or volunteer work, sweeteners like a masters or LCA time, etc.). Or chuck your spot at a global network carrier and go to a ULCC or ACMI. Whatever works for you and your career goals. Either way, that non-interview/no degree required flow is way more of a guarantee in life than someone at another contract carrier has.

The best thing flow offers is constant movement at the top. Even though I have some pretty critical things to say about Envoy and AAG, the flow is still a very valuable thing for them, and I will never be a flow hater like some jealous outsiders are.

The problem they were building was that you flow 20 a month but hire 60. With the average outside attrition, it means every 2 weeks increases flow time by about 1 month for a new hire. So mathematically the flow isn't as valuable for a new hire today, as it was for 2016 hires who will still flow in 6-6.5 years even with the COVID pause.

I don’t disagree, but the mid 2018 and later hires will be 7-10 years...which to me seems of little value, other than the constant movement you mention. We have some pretty sour junior folks who have been on reserve for 2 years.

I hope to beat the flow. I have a masters, some good LORs, but sitting at 700 hours in 2 years isn’t going to cut it.

I wish AAG would make good on the recruiting pitch they sold us and make it a 5 year flow, but I haven’t heard anything from the company or the union about correcting the flow to the bill of good we were sold

That five year flow has always been a bill of goods. I have talked to some twenty somethings that seem to think they are entitled to that five year flow.

Only thing that might even come close is a class action lawsuit for false advertising. But just like the military, the recruiter can promise the moon, but if it wasn’t in the contract you signed, No soup for you!

When RW walks into INDOC day 1 and says “welcome to AA, you’ll be on their list within 5 years” it easy to see why they feel entitled.

I knew it was unlikely, but I thought with the shortage it may get close. Hell at this point my 7.5 year union predicted flow sounds good.

I do think we’re owed answers from RW & Co about what they’re going to do to make good on their promises. We all know it won’t be 5 years, but what are they willing to do to try and speed it up

I was in the 7ish year group. But as people who have flown with me know, I did not come to Envoy for the flow. I flew just over 2000 hours in my 2.5 years here. My plan was always to get in, get my time, and get out.

About the union side, my crystal ball says you should read your email tomorrow.
Just dont expect any good news.

I'll answer this in a few weeks when I am not on the seniority list any more.

That’s an ominous quote for late at night lol

And believe me, many of us would love to fly our butts off, but that’s hard to do on perpetual reserve.

Congrats on the new job,btw.

Thanks!

I got lucky that I was just barely senior enough not to be screwed by COVID and the faux furloughs that ended up costing company a ton more than they ever saved.