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-   -   Envoy 2022: The Flow of Charlie Bucket (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/136201-envoy-2022-flow-charlie-bucket.html)

enyPSIsc2b 01-07-2022 04:44 PM


Originally Posted by JustAsking (Post 3348576)
So if you have a seniority higher than many that went to Captain on this bid, is it better to bid next time or just make the compnay force the upgrade? And if being forced is better than bidding, why would anyone bid?

Pay, PIC time (they’ll be in training sooner), etc.

MidsizeSUV 01-07-2022 05:34 PM


Originally Posted by enyPSIsc2b (Post 3348624)
Pay, PIC time (they’ll be in training sooner), etc.

Pay is better if you are forced and take a voluntary seat lock for 5 extra hours credit per month

But seriously 01-07-2022 05:58 PM

It’s a gamble to try and get displaced.
A few years ago when they were displacing FOs to CA, a lot of people made a little extra money by getting themselves displaced instead of preference bidding. A few people also lost A LOT of money by getting stuck when the music stopped.

My advice: just bid what you want and don’t get cute.

enyPSIsc2b 01-07-2022 06:30 PM


Originally Posted by MidsizeSUV (Post 3348656)
Pay is better if you are forced and take a voluntary seat lock for 5 extra hours credit per month

not worth the gamble. It’s better to take the first available upgrade and build PIC time. Rather than wait 3-6 to for a displacement.

pitchattitude 01-07-2022 07:40 PM

Displacements will almost certainly be to the 145. If you want 175, that’s what you should preference. It is pretty painful to go from the 175 to 145. Both the plane itself and the trips. 145 has more legs and less flight time than the 175.

if you get displaced to the 145 and want the extra 5 hours a month override, you will be locked to it for two years. Of course if you are junior, going to be tough to bid off of it in less than two years anyway.

There will be plenty of union guidance before the next bid, or if you want to see it before then, ask your captain if he has the old bidding email.

Don’t preference bid for anything you don’t want and know that if you don’t have all the displacement statuses listed and the company needs something you may get something you REALLY don’t want verses something that you just would prefer not to get. Back in the day there were more than a few that wanted 175 and couldn’t hold it but could have at least stayed in ORD or DFW on the 145 IF they had been on their displacement. Instead ended up in NY because they didn’t have the other listed and their number came up (actually came down) as displacements are initially reverse seniority to determine who gets the bone and then back down again with the actual assignments.

Example: MIA (175) FO really wants 175 MIA captain but would settle for DFW 175 or maybe even ORD 175 but doesn’t want to get stuck in ORD on the 145. Only lists the 175 statuses, but is low enough can’t hold any of them. Might could hold 145 DFW but if it wasn’t listed after the 175s could end up in ORD 145 that REALLY didn’t want because the company needs them and DFW wasn’t listed.

Probably clear as mid, but again, the bidding email will go into much more detail.

BigZ 01-07-2022 07:57 PM

Yup to the above

3P for what you want, list every seat in 3D in the order of preference - want to stay in base and are junior-
175 dfw (you won't get it if you don't list it)
​​​145 dfw
145 ord (since 145 is junior to 175, you will be able to get back to base sooner on it)
175 ord/mia

Displaced into the left seat doesn't mean you're stuck (unless you take the voluntary seat lock for the extra $), put what you want in your 3Ps for the subsequent bids, eventually you'll get it

Don't leave your 3Ds empty/short. List all the CA seats in there however you see fit, otherwise you might find "NEB" next to your name and an award that would have been your last choice.

FurloughFodder 01-07-2022 09:09 PM


Originally Posted by duck of death (Post 3347776)
For what it’s worth I’m hearing now of more and more pilots getting CJO’s that aren’t anywhere near flow. Either the dam is about to break or more of us are starting to figure out the magic formula.

This is accurate. EM had two ENY guys in his class who were hired outside the flow. One was an FO. Interviews are becoming more common for WO pilots.

FurloughFodder 01-07-2022 09:12 PM


Originally Posted by NoValueAviator (Post 3348536)
Burn baby burn. They can keep hiring, displacing, whatever. All our check airmen are getting hired, and ultimately to convert an ass in class into an ass in a seat they need to be able to train them.


This isn’t a problem yet. We’re no where close to being maxed out on using SCAs and LCAs. I think the limiting factor right now is sim space but that’s just speculation on my part.

slantgolf 01-08-2022 07:13 PM


Originally Posted by FurloughFodder (Post 3348756)
This isn’t a problem yet. We’re no where close to being maxed out on using SCAs and LCAs. I think the limiting factor right now is sim space but that’s just speculation on my part.

i'm surprised to hear that, since myself and many i know waited quite a while to do IOE and between trips on IOE, and the reason given was "lack of check airmen"

FurloughFodder 01-09-2022 05:59 AM

It may be fleet specific, but the friends that I talk to have said that they get one or two students a month.


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