Envoy 2022: The Flow of Charlie Bucket
#21
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 43
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Pay, PIC time (they’ll be in training sooner), etc.
#23
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 638
Likes: 12
It’s a gamble to try and get displaced.
A few years ago when they were displacing FOs to CA, a lot of people made a little extra money by getting themselves displaced instead of preference bidding. A few people also lost A LOT of money by getting stuck when the music stopped.
My advice: just bid what you want and don’t get cute.
A few years ago when they were displacing FOs to CA, a lot of people made a little extra money by getting themselves displaced instead of preference bidding. A few people also lost A LOT of money by getting stuck when the music stopped.
My advice: just bid what you want and don’t get cute.
#24
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 43
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#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,510
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Displacements will almost certainly be to the 145. If you want 175, that’s what you should preference. It is pretty painful to go from the 175 to 145. Both the plane itself and the trips. 145 has more legs and less flight time than the 175.
if you get displaced to the 145 and want the extra 5 hours a month override, you will be locked to it for two years. Of course if you are junior, going to be tough to bid off of it in less than two years anyway.
There will be plenty of union guidance before the next bid, or if you want to see it before then, ask your captain if he has the old bidding email.
Don’t preference bid for anything you don’t want and know that if you don’t have all the displacement statuses listed and the company needs something you may get something you REALLY don’t want verses something that you just would prefer not to get. Back in the day there were more than a few that wanted 175 and couldn’t hold it but could have at least stayed in ORD or DFW on the 145 IF they had been on their displacement. Instead ended up in NY because they didn’t have the other listed and their number came up (actually came down) as displacements are initially reverse seniority to determine who gets the bone and then back down again with the actual assignments.
Example: MIA (175) FO really wants 175 MIA captain but would settle for DFW 175 or maybe even ORD 175 but doesn’t want to get stuck in ORD on the 145. Only lists the 175 statuses, but is low enough can’t hold any of them. Might could hold 145 DFW but if it wasn’t listed after the 175s could end up in ORD 145 that REALLY didn’t want because the company needs them and DFW wasn’t listed.
Probably clear as mid, but again, the bidding email will go into much more detail.
if you get displaced to the 145 and want the extra 5 hours a month override, you will be locked to it for two years. Of course if you are junior, going to be tough to bid off of it in less than two years anyway.
There will be plenty of union guidance before the next bid, or if you want to see it before then, ask your captain if he has the old bidding email.
Don’t preference bid for anything you don’t want and know that if you don’t have all the displacement statuses listed and the company needs something you may get something you REALLY don’t want verses something that you just would prefer not to get. Back in the day there were more than a few that wanted 175 and couldn’t hold it but could have at least stayed in ORD or DFW on the 145 IF they had been on their displacement. Instead ended up in NY because they didn’t have the other listed and their number came up (actually came down) as displacements are initially reverse seniority to determine who gets the bone and then back down again with the actual assignments.
Example: MIA (175) FO really wants 175 MIA captain but would settle for DFW 175 or maybe even ORD 175 but doesn’t want to get stuck in ORD on the 145. Only lists the 175 statuses, but is low enough can’t hold any of them. Might could hold 145 DFW but if it wasn’t listed after the 175s could end up in ORD 145 that REALLY didn’t want because the company needs them and DFW wasn’t listed.
Probably clear as mid, but again, the bidding email will go into much more detail.
#26
Yup to the above
3P for what you want, list every seat in 3D in the order of preference - want to stay in base and are junior-
175 dfw (you won't get it if you don't list it)
145 dfw
145 ord (since 145 is junior to 175, you will be able to get back to base sooner on it)
175 ord/mia
Displaced into the left seat doesn't mean you're stuck (unless you take the voluntary seat lock for the extra $), put what you want in your 3Ps for the subsequent bids, eventually you'll get it
Don't leave your 3Ds empty/short. List all the CA seats in there however you see fit, otherwise you might find "NEB" next to your name and an award that would have been your last choice.
3P for what you want, list every seat in 3D in the order of preference - want to stay in base and are junior-
175 dfw (you won't get it if you don't list it)
145 dfw
145 ord (since 145 is junior to 175, you will be able to get back to base sooner on it)
175 ord/mia
Displaced into the left seat doesn't mean you're stuck (unless you take the voluntary seat lock for the extra $), put what you want in your 3Ps for the subsequent bids, eventually you'll get it
Don't leave your 3Ds empty/short. List all the CA seats in there however you see fit, otherwise you might find "NEB" next to your name and an award that would have been your last choice.
#27
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
This is accurate. EM had two ENY guys in his class who were hired outside the flow. One was an FO. Interviews are becoming more common for WO pilots.
#28
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
This isn’t a problem yet. We’re no where close to being maxed out on using SCAs and LCAs. I think the limiting factor right now is sim space but that’s just speculation on my part.
#29
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
i'm surprised to hear that, since myself and many i know waited quite a while to do IOE and between trips on IOE, and the reason given was "lack of check airmen"
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