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Envoy Airlines Regional Airline

DEC

Old 08-08-2023, 06:12 PM
  #31  
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Joined APC: Feb 2022
Position: E175 Line FO
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Originally Posted by DMH1967 View Post
I agree with several of your points explicitly. An FO in the 121 world is a REQUIRED CREWMEMBER, and should always be treated as such. I spent 18 of my 31 years in this business as an FO, so I get what you're saying. I'd like to hope the days of crusty old CAs saying "Just sit there and shut up, don't touch anything unless I tell you to," are long since passed. I was an FO in those days, and some guys were no fun to be around at all, much less to fly with.

I will add that "Don't do things the way they did it at your old company," could be said with some flex. We all collect our paycheck from Envoy Air, and should fly the airplane using the procedures the way they want. It's not our plane, it's theirs, and they pay us to do things a certain way. BUT, there are some techniques that guys like me who have spent 3 decades in this industry might have learned at other companies that are always valuable. For example: There is very little emphasis put on verifying the correct runway we've been cleared by ATC to cross, or line up on, or on looking outside the window to see if there is a plane on final. I'd hazard a guess that 90% of the FOs I'm flying, when we get a "Line up and wait" from tower, immediately go into their before takeoff flow without even looking outside to see if there is an airplane on short final for that runway. Not so long ago out of DCA we got that exact scenario...as soon as the tower cleared us into position, the FO read it back and picked up the checklist. I jumped on the radio and said, "We'll hold short." There was a plane at about 400' on short final. From my previous airline, we both had to verify verbally any runway we were given a clearance to cross the hold short line of, as well as "clear left," and "clear right" before crossing said hold line. Is that procedure here? No. Do I tell FOs they have to do it when the fly with me? No. Do I still do it myself every time? Absolutely. It's habit, and a technique that I'll never give up because I believe it's a good idea, and because everyone makes mistakes sometimes including tower controllers.

So don't discount the experience and techniques some of us still carry with us after we took an early retirement, or buyout, then decided to come back to work for a bit. As you said, nobody has to be a d!ck about any of it, and nobody should be treating anyone in the cockpit as anything other than a necessary part of the team to make things work well. There are a lot of guys in this industry who make the job a lot harder than it has to be.
As you know there is room in our SOPs for technique. I am happy to learn techniques. Fortunately none of the DECs I have had were a problem... pretty cool in fact. My classmates have reported some challenges being dismissed or DECs flat out contradicting SOPs.

Please check FOM 4G.1.6 digital page 653
"...verbally confirm scan results with each other."

Technically no it does not say to call out "Clear Left/Right", but the spirit is there to verbally confirm the runway is correct and clear to cross.

I love DCA for how crazy it is on the ground.
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Old 09-13-2023, 04:28 PM
  #32  
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I have a buddy that took an early retirement from a major airline during Covid. He got a little bored during retirement and is filling out the PRIA paperwork as a DEC. If someone could give some intel on the expected junior base and if PHX would be possible within a few months. Much appreciated.
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Old 09-13-2023, 07:20 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Mando0530 View Post
I have a buddy that took an early retirement from a major airline during Covid. He got a little bored during retirement and is filling out the PRIA paperwork as a DEC. If someone could give some intel on the expected junior base and if PHX would be possible within a few months. Much appreciated.
Pure guess. Dallas would be the junior base. Phoenix is likely to be full very soon. That doesn't mean it won't change as the base grows but it is a small base. There are already people coming to PHX through December. You have to remember this stuff changes all the time. When I was hired less than a year ago I believe some folks were forced to Chicago. 3 months later it was back to DFW. I think PHX will be harder to get in 2024 as a DEC but what the heck do I know?
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Old 09-15-2023, 07:58 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Mando0530 View Post
I have a buddy that took an early retirement from a major airline during Covid. He got a little bored during retirement and is filling out the PRIA paperwork as a DEC. If someone could give some intel on the expected junior base and if PHX would be possible within a few months. Much appreciated.
Phoenix has gone very junior for direct entry captains. It may not be an option in Indoc but is very likely attainable on the next bid. Several Direct Entry Captains were junior assigned to Phoenix on the July 8th bid. Right now there isnít much flying available for reserve captains in Phoenix. Those who live in Phoenix are happy to sit at home on reserve and not get called, but many of us who commute are trying to bid out to other bases where we will fly more. Base bids are done about 4 times a year. Base trades can be done with the union between those bids. Iím trying to get out of Phoenix and no active captains from ORD or DFW will trade with me. Phoenix is slowly growing but they are intentionally keeping it very over staffed. I sat a month as a reserve captain in Phoenix without being called.

The junior base a few months ago was ORD. The junior base is now DFW since that base is growing the most and many ORD E145 pilots have now retrained on the E175. Miami is senior. Everyone who wanted Phoenix got it on the last bid. If your friend can be patient he wonít have to wait long for Phoenix. Even if they donít post vacancies in Phoenix, they will backfill when some of us bid out. The retired AA captain in my Indoc class is rather disgruntled at receiving regional airline treatment. The E175 is a sweet airplane to fly if you can put up with years of reserve and 12 days off.
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Old 09-16-2023, 09:54 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Ravenwing View Post
Phoenix has gone very junior for direct entry captains. It may not be an option in Indoc but is very likely attainable on the next bid. Several Direct Entry Captains were junior assigned to Phoenix on the July 8th bid. Right now there isnít much flying available for reserve captains in Phoenix. Those who live in Phoenix are happy to sit at home on reserve and not get called, but many of us who commute are trying to bid out to other bases where we will fly more. Base bids are done about 4 times a year. Base trades can be done with the union between those bids. Iím trying to get out of Phoenix and no active captains from ORD or DFW will trade with me. Phoenix is slowly growing but they are intentionally keeping it very overstaffed. I sat a month as a reserve captain in Phoenix without being called.
All good info. A new bid just came out. No openings for PHX. FYI
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Old 09-17-2023, 07:09 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by GoesTo11 View Post
All good info. A new bid just came out. No openings for PHX. FYI
True. But there will likely be backfills when some of us bid out of Phoenix. I'm bidding out, and I know one captain going to Southwest soon.

There are more captain openings in ORD this time but DFW and PHX should be attainable in a short period of time.
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Old 09-19-2023, 12:27 PM
  #37  
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While you can plan on years of reserve as a DEC, currently at DFW, DECs 11-12 months on property are holding lines (14-15 days off). Granted, all 4 day trips and through the weekends. You could hold a composite line 9-ish months on property. Many of the senior folk bid reserve to stay home and cherry pick trips when they feel like getting out of the house.
So there is hope. But keep in mind this could all change a year from now. YMMV.
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