Sad to say, if you want AA, don't come here..
08-10-2023 | 05:32 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 582
Likes: 0
that's a good call in my opinion...I'm guessing after you have the SWA on your resume, AA will call (if you still want it) if they don't, than you're at a career destination...enjoy!
08-10-2023 | 06:38 PM
#12
In a land of unicorns
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 102
From: Whale FO
Your job at a regional isn't to fly airplanes. Your job at a regional is to get out of there as quickly as you can. (this assuming you still have some years left in your career).
08-15-2023 | 01:43 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
TPIC isn't worth much today. UA, DL, SWA et al. will hire you without any TPIC. And you'll get an AA interview within a month of going to SWA if you still want it.
Your job at a regional isn't to fly airplanes. Your job at a regional is to get out of there as quickly as you can. (this assuming you still have some years left in your career).
Your job at a regional isn't to fly airplanes. Your job at a regional is to get out of there as quickly as you can. (this assuming you still have some years left in your career).
08-15-2023 | 08:56 PM
#14
New Hire
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Man I hate to even say this, but many others have already said it. The "flow" is not your friend in today's hiring market.
A little background. I'm a second career guy, long time AA pax, Exec Plat even for several years. LOVE the brand... it feels like home. When I switched to professional flying and got a CJO at Envoy I was over the moon. Get to fly an amazing jet with the logo I prefer, winning..
BUT, I picked the absolute worst way to get to AA while the hiring frenzy is going on. When my captains joined Envoy 4/5/6 years ago, it made complete sense as hiring at the legacies wasn't really a good option for them as the minimums were much higher.
All of us that joined the regional FO ranks in the last 12-24 months are in a different world, not of our creation, just blind luck of timing. This legacy hiring frenzy, AA peaks last, will peak in the next 12-36 months and calm down (age 67 will affect this somewhat). "Flow" is over 6 years.
Of my new hire group, a couple of us absolutely hammered to get hours.. picked up extra, picked up when we go displaced, etc. One class mate hit 860 hours flown in his first 12 months.
None of us can get AA to talk to us. That's fine, I get it, there is a "flow"... don't rob Peter to pay Paul. BUT, AA is hiring people with lower qualifications/experience/resumes because they are somewhere else.
Two classmates (with about ~550 hrs) are already at SWA. I am at a little over 700 with a SWA CJO and class date. My class mate over 800 hours just got his UA CJO. Another class mate has DA and SWA interviews next week. AA won't talk to any of us so they are losing all of us.
I'll keep my AA app up to date as I leave, but maybe SWA will be awesome and I'll just stay.
Just know, if you come to Envoy and wait for the flow, 6000+pliots will hire in before you. Time is not your friend in this market.
I have sincerely enjoyed Envoy, the people I work with, especially the E175. I do not want to leave, but to stay in this hiring market would be insane. Being comfortable is less important that senority.
NOTHING is more important that getting your # at your final destination airline. NOTHING.
Take the path that leads to your final destination in as little time as possible.
If you want to work for DA/UA/SWA, Envoy is great. Come get good training, fly a great airplane, 98% cool Captains, upgrade at 950 hours, and then get hired where you want.
If you want to work for AA while hiring is hot, do not come here.
Good luck and choose well.
A little background. I'm a second career guy, long time AA pax, Exec Plat even for several years. LOVE the brand... it feels like home. When I switched to professional flying and got a CJO at Envoy I was over the moon. Get to fly an amazing jet with the logo I prefer, winning..
BUT, I picked the absolute worst way to get to AA while the hiring frenzy is going on. When my captains joined Envoy 4/5/6 years ago, it made complete sense as hiring at the legacies wasn't really a good option for them as the minimums were much higher.
All of us that joined the regional FO ranks in the last 12-24 months are in a different world, not of our creation, just blind luck of timing. This legacy hiring frenzy, AA peaks last, will peak in the next 12-36 months and calm down (age 67 will affect this somewhat). "Flow" is over 6 years.
Of my new hire group, a couple of us absolutely hammered to get hours.. picked up extra, picked up when we go displaced, etc. One class mate hit 860 hours flown in his first 12 months.
None of us can get AA to talk to us. That's fine, I get it, there is a "flow"... don't rob Peter to pay Paul. BUT, AA is hiring people with lower qualifications/experience/resumes because they are somewhere else.
Two classmates (with about ~550 hrs) are already at SWA. I am at a little over 700 with a SWA CJO and class date. My class mate over 800 hours just got his UA CJO. Another class mate has DA and SWA interviews next week. AA won't talk to any of us so they are losing all of us.
I'll keep my AA app up to date as I leave, but maybe SWA will be awesome and I'll just stay.
Just know, if you come to Envoy and wait for the flow, 6000+pliots will hire in before you. Time is not your friend in this market.
I have sincerely enjoyed Envoy, the people I work with, especially the E175. I do not want to leave, but to stay in this hiring market would be insane. Being comfortable is less important that senority.
NOTHING is more important that getting your # at your final destination airline. NOTHING.
Take the path that leads to your final destination in as little time as possible.
If you want to work for DA/UA/SWA, Envoy is great. Come get good training, fly a great airplane, 98% cool Captains, upgrade at 950 hours, and then get hired where you want.
If you want to work for AA while hiring is hot, do not come here.
Good luck and choose well.
08-16-2023 | 03:43 AM
#15
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
I am at that exact same point as you are! Envoy FO about to be force upgraded on the next vacancy bid with an interview with SWA coming up.
This thread speaks a lot of truth. I wish I could go to AA from Envoy too.
08-16-2023 | 04:29 AM
#16
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 426
Likes: 1
From: Pipers!
Another Envoy 12-24 monther here. I hit my 1,000 company/121 hours in June (15 months after hitting the line) and am now the proud holder of a United CJO! Our time working in the AA system has created a strong bond of affection to the brand, and I admit I’ll miss a lot of things about it, but I really have no frame of reference because I’ve only ever worked in the AA system. I have a strong suspicion the grass will be greener at my next job, and in the event it isn’t, heck, the door to AA will then be open should I choose to walk through it. What disappoints me are the games AA recruitment is playing with Envoy pilots who are diligently working to get hired outside the flow. “It’s like getting accepted to an Ivy League school,” one of them told me. I didn’t say it, but I certainly thought that was a disingenuous and dismissive comment to make to someone who’s more qualified (in terms of 121 experience) than many of their off-the-street hires. Business is business, however, and it is time for the next transaction! Best of luck at SWA!
Every training event started with “thank you for being here and welcome”. All the admin processes work; smoothly. The crews are equally awesome, often better.
The only thing I miss is the 100K and paying back a bonus…. Which in the grand scheme of things is not significant over this career, and would be sad to be the only deciding factor to stay somewhere.
The elitism about not hiring loyal WO captains has to stop, it’s only hurting AA in the long run and the competition has capitalized on hiring very well trained experienced pilots who do well in training and on the line.
Congrats and welcome to UAL, I’m excited for you because I can recently remember the feelings you are about to experience.
08-16-2023 | 12:20 PM
#17
Banned
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 507
Likes: 0
Another Envoy 12-24 monther here. I hit my 1,000 company/121 hours in June (15 months after hitting the line) and am now the proud holder of a United CJO! Our time working in the AA system has created a strong bond of affection to the brand, and I admit I’ll miss a lot of things about it, but I really have no frame of reference because I’ve only ever worked in the AA system. I have a strong suspicion the grass will be greener at my next job, and in the event it isn’t, heck, the door to AA will then be open should I choose to walk through it. What disappoints me are the games AA recruitment is playing with Envoy pilots who are diligently working to get hired outside the flow. “It’s like getting accepted to an Ivy League school,” one of them told me. I didn’t say it, but I certainly thought that was a disingenuous and dismissive comment to make to someone who’s more qualified (in terms of 121 experience) than many of their off-the-street hires. Business is business, however, and it is time for the next transaction! Best of luck at SWA!
So you're almost right, it is kinda like ivy league schools. In more ways than one.
Burn'em dude. Get your SWA type rating and go to AA.
A few years ago you needed a resume/application consulting company that costs hundreds.
Then you needed total time, TPIC, Jet time only, no turboprop. And it better be glass. Preferably underwing mounted engines.
You flew heavies international? Were you the captain? Was it military? Sorry not good enough.
Get a 737 type rating. Because why not.
Then you needed to wait in line at bread line... I mean job fairs. Which cost several hundred dollars just to get in the door. Not including airfare, hotels, or rental cars, and calling in sick to go.
Then it you needed to be a check airman, and IOE, and sim instructor.
And be a veteran, but only specific veterans got preference. Sorry mechanics and infantry not you.
And volunteer service building gay houses with green peace. To make you a more rounded person to sit in the cockpit for 4 days.
You need a degree.
And you better be gay.
Or a woman. Or black. LGBTQ-ABCDEFU....
Then it was interview prep that costs thousands. But of course be yourself at the interview, because they only want you to be you. But don't do anything weird.
F#ck'em dude. They did this to themselves. Do what's good for you. And if that means you burn their regionals, and SW for a type rating, that's just the game. Good luck.
08-16-2023 | 03:22 PM
#19
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 74
Likes: 8
Another Envoy 12-24 monther here. I hit my 1,000 company/121 hours in June (15 months after hitting the line) and am now the proud holder of a United CJO! Our time working in the AA system has created a strong bond of affection to the brand, and I admit I’ll miss a lot of things about it, but I really have no frame of reference because I’ve only ever worked in the AA system. I have a strong suspicion the grass will be greener at my next job, and in the event it isn’t, heck, the door to AA will then be open should I choose to walk through it. What disappoints me are the games AA recruitment is playing with Envoy pilots who are diligently working to get hired outside the flow. “It’s like getting accepted to an Ivy League school,” one of them told me. I didn’t say it, but I certainly thought that was a disingenuous and dismissive comment to make to someone who’s more qualified (in terms of 121 experience) than many of their off-the-street hires. Business is business, however, and it is time for the next transaction! Best of luck at SWA!
08-16-2023 | 07:24 PM
#20
New Hire
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Good timing, frankly. I was hired during the immediate post-pandemic FO shortage. Flew 50+ hrs a month during my three months on reserve, then aggressively picked up OT and flew 70-80 hrs a month while a lineholder. I could have hit 1,000 hrs sooner, but I dropped some trips to enjoy my non-rev travel benefits a little!
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