Sad to say, if you want AA, don't come here..
10-26-2023 | 06:55 AM
#31
On Reserve
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 111
Likes: 3
How original. Play the "you're a bigot" card to anyone that points out the favoritism in the industry that it is aimed at virtue signaling diversity. Yes, it's the ONLY explanation.
11-11-2023 | 02:55 PM
#32
On Reserve
Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 117
Likes: 1
Christ, your post history. You’re one psych eval from LTD man.
11-14-2023 | 11:28 AM
#33
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
From: Crew room attendant
A few years ago you needed a resume/application consulting company that costs hundreds.
Then you needed total time, TPIC, Jet time only, no turboprop. And it better be glass. Preferably underwing mounted engines.
You flew heavies international? Were you the captain? Was it military? Sorry not good enough.
Get a 737 type rating. Because why not.
Then you needed to wait in line at bread line... I mean job fairs. Which cost several hundred dollars just to get in the door. Not including airfare, hotels, or rental cars, and calling in sick to go.
Then it you needed to be a check airman, and IOE, and sim instructor.
And be a veteran, but only specific veterans got preference. Sorry mechanics and infantry not you.
Then you needed total time, TPIC, Jet time only, no turboprop. And it better be glass. Preferably underwing mounted engines.
You flew heavies international? Were you the captain? Was it military? Sorry not good enough.
Get a 737 type rating. Because why not.
Then you needed to wait in line at bread line... I mean job fairs. Which cost several hundred dollars just to get in the door. Not including airfare, hotels, or rental cars, and calling in sick to go.
Then it you needed to be a check airman, and IOE, and sim instructor.
And be a veteran, but only specific veterans got preference. Sorry mechanics and infantry not you.
And volunteer service building gay houses with green peace. To make you a more rounded person to sit in the cockpit for 4 days.
You need a degree.
And you better be gay.
Or a woman. Or black. LGBTQ-ABCDEFU....
Then it was interview prep that costs thousands. But of course be yourself at the interview, because they only want you to be you. But don't do anything weird.
F#ck'em dude. They did this to themselves. Do what's good for you. And if that means you burn their regionals, and SW for a type rating, that's just the game. Good luck.
You need a degree.
And you better be gay.
Or a woman. Or black. LGBTQ-ABCDEFU....
Then it was interview prep that costs thousands. But of course be yourself at the interview, because they only want you to be you. But don't do anything weird.
F#ck'em dude. They did this to themselves. Do what's good for you. And if that means you burn their regionals, and SW for a type rating, that's just the game. Good luck.
01-18-2024 | 06:53 AM
#34
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: B737 Line FO
- New Hire Bonus (signed early 2022) is NOT pro-rated.
- NHB payback request is NET (less taxes)
- They are offering pay-out plans of up to 12 months... this is still in discussion.
- They are asking for ATP/CTP repayment, but I have not seen paperwork supporting that request.
- The are asking for Retention Bonus repayment, but I have not seen paperwork supporting that request.
My advice on this topic:
- IF you take the bonus, put 100% of the NET into a 5% interest paying account and DO NOT SPEND it!
- If they come looking for payback, engage in the discussion and don't just ignore them. They can engage lawyers if they want, and at your expense if you lose.
01-18-2024 | 07:04 AM
#35
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: B737 Line FO
A follow up post about my thread..
I ended up taking the CJO with SWA(WN). Training was good at a top notch facility. 99% of the people were great, friendly, happy to be there. We were treated like adults with access to training equipment (CPTs) off hours to practice. We had every bit of support we needed to be successful. Do not sweat the "it's not AQP" (yet). They did not release us to the checking events (Oral) and (PC in the SIM) until we were ready. They also accomodated some classmates that got ill or had family issues back home. A couple had need for some additional training, they just slid back and connected with another group and did fine.
Part of me is a bit salty about AAG/AA freezing us WO guys out of mainline, but so far I am feeling like this is a good thing. The people just feel a lot happier and nicer across the organization. The gate agents, rampers, ops agents, FAs, etc. Everything just feels easier. I'm also getting 17-18 days off either directly in my bid or with a tiny bit of trip trading. The trip trade tools are awesome compared to the 1970s insanity at ENY.
I can not say this enough... Do NOT wait for "the FLOW".. All of the big hiring push will be long over by the time you flow. Envoy and the E175 were enjoyable. I miss the E175. BUT... NOTHING... NOTHING... NOTHING is more important than getting to your final airline senority list. If AA is your passion and final destination, the WO regionals are NOT for you... unless you are just bad at math..
UA and DAL have both hired a bunch of ENY guys. If that's what you want, rock on you will likely have a good experience at ENY.
Good luck and smooth flying!
I ended up taking the CJO with SWA(WN). Training was good at a top notch facility. 99% of the people were great, friendly, happy to be there. We were treated like adults with access to training equipment (CPTs) off hours to practice. We had every bit of support we needed to be successful. Do not sweat the "it's not AQP" (yet). They did not release us to the checking events (Oral) and (PC in the SIM) until we were ready. They also accomodated some classmates that got ill or had family issues back home. A couple had need for some additional training, they just slid back and connected with another group and did fine.
Part of me is a bit salty about AAG/AA freezing us WO guys out of mainline, but so far I am feeling like this is a good thing. The people just feel a lot happier and nicer across the organization. The gate agents, rampers, ops agents, FAs, etc. Everything just feels easier. I'm also getting 17-18 days off either directly in my bid or with a tiny bit of trip trading. The trip trade tools are awesome compared to the 1970s insanity at ENY.
I can not say this enough... Do NOT wait for "the FLOW".. All of the big hiring push will be long over by the time you flow. Envoy and the E175 were enjoyable. I miss the E175. BUT... NOTHING... NOTHING... NOTHING is more important than getting to your final airline senority list. If AA is your passion and final destination, the WO regionals are NOT for you... unless you are just bad at math..
UA and DAL have both hired a bunch of ENY guys. If that's what you want, rock on you will likely have a good experience at ENY.
Good luck and smooth flying!
01-18-2024 | 07:43 AM
#36
On Reserve
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Man I hate to even say this, but many others have already said it. The "flow" is not your friend in today's hiring market.
A little background. I'm a second career guy, long time AA pax, Exec Plat even for several years. LOVE the brand... it feels like home. When I switched to professional flying and got a CJO at Envoy I was over the moon. Get to fly an amazing jet with the logo I prefer, winning..
BUT, I picked the absolute worst way to get to AA while the hiring frenzy is going on. When my captains joined Envoy 4/5/6 years ago, it made complete sense as hiring at the legacies wasn't really a good option for them as the minimums were much higher.
All of us that joined the regional FO ranks in the last 12-24 months are in a different world, not of our creation, just blind luck of timing. This legacy hiring frenzy, AA peaks last, will peak in the next 12-36 months and calm down (age 67 will affect this somewhat). "Flow" is over 6 years.
Of my new hire group, a couple of us absolutely hammered to get hours.. picked up extra, picked up when we go displaced, etc. One class mate hit 860 hours flown in his first 12 months.
None of us can get AA to talk to us. That's fine, I get it, there is a "flow"... don't rob Peter to pay Paul. BUT, AA is hiring people with lower qualifications/experience/resumes because they are somewhere else.
Two classmates (with about ~550 hrs) are already at SWA. I am at a little over 700 with a SWA CJO and class date. My class mate over 800 hours just got his UA CJO. Another class mate has DA and SWA interviews next week. AA won't talk to any of us so they are losing all of us.
I'll keep my AA app up to date as I leave, but maybe SWA will be awesome and I'll just stay.
Just know, if you come to Envoy and wait for the flow, 6000+pliots will hire in before you. Time is not your friend in this market.
I have sincerely enjoyed Envoy, the people I work with, especially the E175. I do not want to leave, but to stay in this hiring market would be insane. Being comfortable is less important that senority.
NOTHING is more important that getting your # at your final destination airline. NOTHING.
Take the path that leads to your final destination in as little time as possible.
If you want to work for DA/UA/SWA, Envoy is great. Come get good training, fly a great airplane, 98% cool Captains, upgrade at 950 hours, and then get hired where you want.
If you want to work for AA while hiring is hot, do not come here.
Good luck and choose well.
A little background. I'm a second career guy, long time AA pax, Exec Plat even for several years. LOVE the brand... it feels like home. When I switched to professional flying and got a CJO at Envoy I was over the moon. Get to fly an amazing jet with the logo I prefer, winning..
BUT, I picked the absolute worst way to get to AA while the hiring frenzy is going on. When my captains joined Envoy 4/5/6 years ago, it made complete sense as hiring at the legacies wasn't really a good option for them as the minimums were much higher.
All of us that joined the regional FO ranks in the last 12-24 months are in a different world, not of our creation, just blind luck of timing. This legacy hiring frenzy, AA peaks last, will peak in the next 12-36 months and calm down (age 67 will affect this somewhat). "Flow" is over 6 years.
Of my new hire group, a couple of us absolutely hammered to get hours.. picked up extra, picked up when we go displaced, etc. One class mate hit 860 hours flown in his first 12 months.
None of us can get AA to talk to us. That's fine, I get it, there is a "flow"... don't rob Peter to pay Paul. BUT, AA is hiring people with lower qualifications/experience/resumes because they are somewhere else.
Two classmates (with about ~550 hrs) are already at SWA. I am at a little over 700 with a SWA CJO and class date. My class mate over 800 hours just got his UA CJO. Another class mate has DA and SWA interviews next week. AA won't talk to any of us so they are losing all of us.
I'll keep my AA app up to date as I leave, but maybe SWA will be awesome and I'll just stay.
Just know, if you come to Envoy and wait for the flow, 6000+pliots will hire in before you. Time is not your friend in this market.
I have sincerely enjoyed Envoy, the people I work with, especially the E175. I do not want to leave, but to stay in this hiring market would be insane. Being comfortable is less important that senority.
NOTHING is more important that getting your # at your final destination airline. NOTHING.
Take the path that leads to your final destination in as little time as possible.
If you want to work for DA/UA/SWA, Envoy is great. Come get good training, fly a great airplane, 98% cool Captains, upgrade at 950 hours, and then get hired where you want.
If you want to work for AA while hiring is hot, do not come here.
Good luck and choose well.
01-18-2024 | 09:18 PM
#38
— No Relief On Scope —
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,578
Likes: 337
From: B737 Left Seat
01-19-2024 | 02:31 AM
#40
SrFOorJrCAisthe?
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 300
PSA opening PHL and DFW bases was no coincidence.
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