First it was slice and dice, then deflection to snippets and now you're hiding behind semantics. "Withheld to 20" IS a minimum of 20. It seems you refuse to admit Envoy HAS NOT flowed 12% more than promised as per the 824 agreement and you were blowing smoke with that claim.

I guess some salesman just simply cannot be convinced of anything but their own sales pitch. :cool:

No, withheld to 20 is NOT a minimum of 20. If they hire 10, we get 5... Not a minimum of 20.

The entire rest of your dribble is equally flawed

Yes, they are front-loading the bid to ensure staffing once it goes on line early next year hence the 55. This is all propped up like a house of cards as unless Envoy get 50 new-hires each and every month, this engine will conk out quickly and who wants to be in the exhaust pipe when that happens ?

That I did and it only took 12 years despite the promise of 2. May you do a whole lot better, but so far all I see is the same old sell with no concrete commitments.

Did a big vacancy bid with CA upgrades come out this week? Need to get moving if they're going to upgrade another 200+ this year


Please, no one believe any of this. The flow is complicated with all the % of classes that each group of pilots get, not to mention US/AA combining hiring, plus TWA guys coming back off of furlough. Cujo touting 50% of every class isn't even correct if you look at the flow language. It gradually gets stepped down in % once the 824 stops, and then again once if gets to new hire pilots. Especially once you get to 10/11/2011 hires, which I'm not sure the % of 2011 hires after that date (if they were doing 40/mo, which I believe they were doing more than that, half of October to the end of year would be 100 pilots.) should be around 315 pilots. If they flowed the MAX that they could (the LESSER of 35% or 15 pilots), it's 21 months for all of those guys to flow. And that's dependent on tons of new hires coming in the door to keep up with this.


All of the projections of 50% of the class or 25/30 (25/30 being the top end), down to 35%/15 after 10/2011, and 25%/5! (meanwhile envoy guys bash PSA for only getting 4 slots per class) for current hires comes with the language "will occupy the LESSER of" each class. And that's the % or lesser of actual new hires, not furlough recalls.

Lots and lots of IFs about this guaranteed flow through. Most of which don't equal new hire to AA in 6 years.

But How long after the flow restarted? The lost decade was industry wide for the legacys and had NOTHING to do with the flow not working, there were no jobs to flow to. So, come on.... Once the flow started up again in 2010 when did you go?

Then stop blowing smoke and correct my math. So far, you have not proven your 12% claim class per monthly class since December 2013. That's all I asked you to do. From what I've heard you've not gotten 50% of all AA classes. In fact, AA pilots are being hired on the US Airways side and is that too calculated in your assertions ?

They ARE American Airlines New-hires you know.

Flawed ? The largest flaw in this whole mess is the sales pitch you and others are floating here about all the certainties that will occur at Envoy if pilots just please sign up and quick. I don't see a single solitary rep from another regional airline on this forum doing any such thing, not even at PSA or Piedmont. You reek of desperation.

Like most things in life I'm sure the true answer lies somewhere between the rosy picture you paint and the other. Your average lurker should probably assume a 7 year flow is going to be about right at Envoy. I mean let's face it, you are not done shrinking just yet. Is it shrinking followed by a little growth in the future? Sure. But let's not pretend things aren't going to get worse before they get better at Envoy.

...and yet knowing that you STILL refuse to accept that a MULTITUDE of situations from terrorism, to global economics, to politics, to energy, to capacity reductions and the scheduling and furlough recall issues internal to AA ALL could (and to some degree WILL) likely negatively impact the "6-year" projection (again, look up the definition of that term). On top of that NONE of what so far HAS occurred CAN occur without Envoy hiring a MINIMUM 50 pilots each and every month from here on out and pilots which by the way simply DON'T EXIST in the pipeline.

Come on, man...........get real. All this hinges on virtually EVERYTHING going right from here on out and that's a fool's assumption.

I guess things are at such a point there at Envoy, that one little letter of projected hypotheticals can result in the belief in just about anything. This is a pilot group beaten down like no other and just like battered wives, rationality is one of the first casualties.

The biggest flaw. Is it's not 1 list.. Problem solved.. Make it simple