Current CA here now and should be over in 12 as well.. Not horrible considering no Hiring at the majors until recently, flowbacks still here, bankruptcy, age 65 etc...

New hires should have it way better than us. They are seeing DAL, UAL and AA hiring 2000-3000 pilots a year combined. That number will go up even higher 4-5 years from now. Where all we saw was basically zero to a trickle for.. years.

The new hire issue you speak of is absolutely the weak link of this chain. There simply aren't enough prospective pilots to cover 50 new hires a month for 6 years to get that most junior guy hired today a seat at AA.

I'm just curious as to how Cujo went from "ALPA facilitating careers elsewhere" to "This is the greatest regional and we will all be AA pilots". Envoy management clearly made a threat against the union to cease the "abandon ship" maneuver or else. Cujo caved and he is now the biggest cheerleader Pedro has.

For anyone considering Envoy look at the actual facts, not a hopeful projection based off ideal circumstances. Envoy is not likely to get the amount of new hires required to cover flow movement over the given time frame, who will flow? The 824 and likely the most senior protected pilots (of which I'm fairly certain is none other than Cujo himself). Look at motivations. Cujo has been threatened by the company and desperately needs the flow to work at least to his seniority level as he is in his late 40s and likely doesn't have any other options.

The regional landscape will change drastically over the next decade, I'm not sure if it will lead to flow agreements, benefit increases, or something not thought of yet. What I do know is that Cujo has led people down this rabbit hole before as "Mason32" and he clearly has ulterior motives.

Yep, lots could happen; but unless they find the fountain of youth those guys are all retiring and we replace 50% of them. That's a cold hard fact. It sucks that you got stuck at Eagle through no fault of your own. Doesn't change the fact that the flow is now retirement driven. Absent going out of business, we get 50%.

The protected pilots flow is not just a contractual thing they can throw out or modify because they feel like it. It is a legal grievance settlement agreement in case 0411/Transfer of assets.

It does include protection in the event of a merger. Have you read the documents?

Yes, it would. Gee, you'd think if AAG truly intended to make the Eagle system including Envoy the only path to AA, they'd have pounced on this, yet............nothing. Instead, local flight dept. types at least at Envoy are putting out letters that are exactly like ones that were previously disseminated, just to a new audience, most of which hasn't seen this before and ALL predicated on hypothetical projections...........again.

Not surprisingly, some are planning on buying things with checks that not only might bounce, but that haven't even arrived in the mail, only the promise that it IS in the mail. Pilots.........what'ya gonna do ?

The flow after the 824 is not predicated upon ever having been a captain. We could shrink this airline right down to 40 E75's and it wouldn't change the fact that retirement based hiring at AA sends every single one of our guys over in under 6 years. Stopping the shrinking just means upgrades and better QOL for all.

Id be more concerned about the reps they aren't trying to intimidate. When was the last time a training center rep got targeted?

I wouldn't worry about it there are still plenty of dummies out there who will go to Envoy. They know what's involved yet they will risk everything to see their E175 dreams fulfilled. It's real airplane you know, just like the big boys have. Like that old saying 'there's one born every minute'.

This is the actual flow language in case anyone wants to read facts.

I did once, but don't have it anymore, but please post it to support your claim. At any rate, the disposition of Envoy and any and all contractually related agreements with pilots can be circumvented by several methods of dissolution of the carrier aside from a straight merger. Might I suggest review the AA/TWA asset acquisition and offer of employment as a resource ?

If there is one thing your union past, present and certainly future has proven is that with the correct threat (that doesn't even have to exist like your pseudo-1113 during AMR's chapter 11 ;)), they'll not only agree to just about anything, they'll bust their humps to convince you to as well.

This assumes AA hires an equal or greater number of pilots then those that retire. I fly here and I'm not confident in that occurring at all. Why you are is beyond my comprehension.

Is this you claiming a "career decision day" (the FINAL step of the PPC process) that others claim you have was strictly management harassment ? Signing that is voluntary and NOBODY signs that paper unless there is some validity in that. That's like signing a confession for a murder you didn't commit. Gee, if so, that's not a very glowing statement of ALPA having your back, ESPECIALLY being a rep ? :eek: