I like how mason is pushing for us to except a deal for the planes even if it is concessionary, so we have a chance to deal with apa. What could we deal with apa that could help us? Numbers will never happen. I believe mason is more and more intertwine with management everyday.

 

Nope, not management.

Just telling you like it is. They said they'd place planes elsewhere and they did. I told you their plan. There are two roads they can use to get there. Up to you how it goes, not me.

Nobody except your pilots can decide that.

Facts are facts. You don't have to like them for it to be true.

You can bet that whatever deal they work out; it will have something for the company. Your decision will be if the value is enough to pass it. If not, they'll go to plan B. I've told you all along what they were going to do.
Now you call me management?

 

The fact is that for the vast majority of pilots at Envoy, even a deal with APA would mean a job at AA too many years from now. Because the staffing outlook at all regionals is so poor, they won't be able to afford to let us flow faster than they are forced to right now. Which means if anyone is planning to wait around for a flow to AA (despite every other airline in the world hiring right now and for the foreseeable future), there is plenty of incentive to make some long-deserved improvements at the regional level. They told us I don't know how many times that we had our last chance for these planes and now they are back again talking to us. The ATP rules are about to become even more restrictive. If they want to continue to **** away pilots at the current rate, let them. Agreeing to more years of bad work rules, low pay, intentional contract violations, and monthly pay comp "errors" shouldn't be a priority for this or any pilot group. We don't have leverage if we don't use it.

 

There is validity to the part about the new ATP rules. It is a factor in them wanting a deal now, not later.
I've said it before. You have leverage; use it wisely. Your leaders have been doing well so far.

 

I don't think you are management, but I do think in this post you've mischaracterized what has happened. "They said they'd place planes elsewhere and they did." That's not true. They said, repeatedly, that they would place every plane elsewhere. And they haven't. They said they would shut us down. Instead they signed a 10 year lease on new company headquarters. They said it was our last chance to fly those planes. We've had about 7 "last" chances. You may not be management, but you aren't telling the whole truth.

 

2except

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: to leave out (someone or something) : to not include (someone or something)

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verb (used with object) 1. to take or receive (something offered); receive with approval or favor: to accept a present; to accept a proposal.

 

What if the flow stops for reasons beyond anyone's control or some other direction for Envoy occurred in the future ? The last group of us thought our flow was golden too, but 13 years after the first pilot got his AA seniority, only approximately 124 pilots actually were at AA. For those that will flow, even a delay of a few years means your AA compensation (the supposed rationalization for a "payoff" for concessions at Envoy) begins years later altering the financial equation significantly.

All I'm saying (and HAVE been saying), is I'd be leery of making the same mistakes of the past and capitulating for uncertain promises.

 

I understood what they were going to do, no doubt here about their plan b. We all know this place is a sinking ship and why people are hanging on longer i have no clue. Management doesn't care about us so why aren't we burning this place to the ground hurting them instead of waiting to be killed off. There is nothing good that can come from this since we DON'T deserve anymore concessions and management WILL NOT place the planes here without concessions. That is a fact.

I would rather go down fighting while trying to bale off this sinking ship instead of sitting on the sidelines watching and hoping. Only if more pilots especially captains at envoy understood this.

 

Y'all need to seriously calm down and take a deep breath!!! They just started talking again, we'll see what comes out of it if anything at all.... I really wonder about some of your guys mental states! Are you safe to operate aircraft? If your head is about to explode with anger you may need to call in sick for a few days and calm down!

 

So answer your own question there wiz, why are you hanging on longer?
You do realize that you kinda started this whole thing today when you went off on your rant about bill and the union not doing enough! What you failed to mention was that this was just day one of talks! How did you think it would go on day one? Now that both parties have hopefully calmed down a bit they can actually start to make progress! Man I'm sure glad some of you aren't in union or leadership positions!