Sounds like these issues echo some similarities to the 'J for J' program enacted on the US Airways side.
Eagle is not the only carrier to have paid dues in the past.

You don't have to wait! That is the beauty of the system! You could apply and go elsewhere...nothing keeping you at Eagle. DAL is hiring, so is UAL, Airways, Spirit, SWA, the list is large.

Yeah nothing physically holding him there except the fact the phone doesn't ring. As if you just apply and get a call for an interview right away then go to class.

:confused:

How did the F/O's get hired? Maybe they kept their logbook up to date? Maybe they applied? Maybe they went to job fairs? Maybe they busted their butt and networked their way out?

In other words, they worked for it instead of sitting there waiting their turn.

I have applications everywhere, I update my logbook weekly, I have a college degree, I have a couple references at both UA and DL, I have a clean record. Phone isn't ringing, nor do I expect it to for 3-4 years. I want a better flow so I have a safety net of a career just in case that phone never rings.

F/O or CA? Training dept? UAL and DAL mostly are calling check airman. All the LCA I knew personally are at UAL now. Been to any job fairs? Word on the street is a couple of the companies interview those who attend them. The F/O's I flew with were very active in GTFO with that stuff.

FO, thats why I don't expect anyone to call. I'm also at Envoy so I don't ever expect to upgrade. Not training department, and since I don't think I'm overly competitive nor do I agree with job fairs I haven't been to one yet. "Paying to play" along with being in a room with 1000 other guys in identical suits really rubs me the wrong way. However, I may go to the OBAP fair in Vegas next year.

My response to those Eagle captains if they could've applied to Airways as well. They chose to not do so. No empathy at all for them.

I agree with you there. Each and every one of us is responsible for our own career progression. If one chooses to wait out a flow, and it doesn't work out, then that is the bed they made, and must lay in it.

You guys negotiated the flow and however you came up with the % that is what was agreed upon and now you are pitching a fit? Entitled much?

Also true, However, the flow through was not just given to us as a gift. It was set up as an arbitration award for damages done, and severe losses caused to Eagle pilots, through no fault of their own, but by the company. The pilot group settled for, and was sold on a flowthrough program that ended up not working at all as advertised (It also contained a 'flowback' provision). They where also duped into signing a deal that set in low jet wages to get the jets with a 2 year seat lock. They where worried that the seat lock would lock them out of their flowthough for the 2 yrs. The company said "Don't worry, we won't hire anybody ahead of you, and when the 2 yrs is up, you can flow over and retain your rightful place on the seniority list". As soon as the pilots inked the deal, AA went and bought other airlines, and stapled all their pilots onto their seniority list, therefore blocking the flows (after the 2 yrs where up), and stagnating the would be flow throughs for another 10+ years. AA didn't hire again for several years, so the flowthrough became worthless. When AA bought those airlines (Reno Air, and TWA) they furloughed the newly stapled guys at the bottom of their list, and they became 'flowbacks' to Eagle, causing displacements, furlough of Eagle FO's and long term stagnation. All of this would not have hurt so bad, if the ones that gave up everything for a lie, would have been given original numbers in the first place.

Also, the %'s where not agreed upon by Eagle. They where to get 50% of new hire classes (or a minimum number, if 50% was less than that number). But now Eagle management ascertains that they have to 'meter' to lower attrition, due to low staffing levels. We argued this, that Eagle management hasn't done it's part to fix staffing levels, other than to put the burden on the pilot group by the metering. But it has not got us anywhere.

Well in that case it sounds like you are arguing for arguments sake at this point. You're not the Eagle guy hired in the 90's. Most everyone are doing 7-10 years at commuters before moving on.

I'm trying to point out that it's not as simple as "applying". Getting hired at a major takes alot of luck and great timing. Thats why we fight about the flow through.