The useful Envoy thread
#221
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,648
The real truth is that nobody knows. This industry is in so much flux right now that an airline that looks great today might look horrible tomorrow and visa versa. Who knows? Maybe the talks between mgmt and the union actually do lead towards a new agreement that gets ratified which significantly boosts hiring at envoy; in that case he would be at the front of the hiring spree and coming to eagle now would have been the best regional airline based decision he could have made. So perhaps instead of trying to discourage someone so much you can be a little more level headed about the whole thing.
I agree that the sky is probably not falling at Envoy. However, there are better choices than Envoy. As someone else said, some regionals are filling classes whether Envoy pilots want to believe that or not.
#222
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Left
Posts: 1,809
^^^^^^PSA and Mesa are getting new aircraft and or growing. They are filling their classes but still have a 40% ish new hire washout rate. If our management is truly concerned about staffing, they do know how to put an end to the attrition of FO's and lack of new hires. The ball is 100% in their court on the attrition and new hire issue.
#223
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Position: A-320 FO
Posts: 90
The first time around, Parker came to us excepting a swift victory and didn't have a backup plan. That's why it took so long for even a portion of the airplanes to go elsewhere. However, it would be a mistake from him to approach this negotiating round without another plan if talks fail.
It's good to see them willing to talk. I've even heard that Glass has toned down his rhetoric a bit. However, there probably is a plan B this time. I don't believe they have the desire or the means to shut us down, but if there is no deal and the planes go elsewhere, it will be a miserable time here for the foreseeable future.
#224
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,648
Voting down an agreeable proposal out of spite would not be a good thing. If it's a good deal (whatever that may look like) for us, there would be no logical reason to turn it down. As angry as people are with the company, it doesn't have to come down to a zero-sum game. Both sides can win; personally, I would be fine with that. Remember when everyone thought the company was cutting off its own nose to spite its face? Wouldn't that be exactly what we would be doing to ourselves?
The first time around, Parker came to us excepting a swift victory and didn't have a backup plan. That's why it took so long for even a portion of the airplanes to go elsewhere. However, it would be a mistake from him to approach this negotiating round without another plan if talks fail.
It's good to see them willing to talk. I've even heard that Glass has toned down his rhetoric a bit. However, there probably is a plan B this time. I don't believe they have the desire or the means to shut us down, but if there is no deal and the planes go elsewhere, it will be a miserable time here for the foreseeable future.
The first time around, Parker came to us excepting a swift victory and didn't have a backup plan. That's why it took so long for even a portion of the airplanes to go elsewhere. However, it would be a mistake from him to approach this negotiating round without another plan if talks fail.
It's good to see them willing to talk. I've even heard that Glass has toned down his rhetoric a bit. However, there probably is a plan B this time. I don't believe they have the desire or the means to shut us down, but if there is no deal and the planes go elsewhere, it will be a miserable time here for the foreseeable future.
#225
And I am strangely fine with that.
#226
........However, it would be a mistake from him to approach this negotiating round without another plan if talks fail.
.........there probably is a plan B this time. I don't believe they have the desire or the means to shut us down, but if there is no deal and the planes go elsewhere, it will be a miserable time here for the foreseeable future.
.........there probably is a plan B this time. I don't believe they have the desire or the means to shut us down, but if there is no deal and the planes go elsewhere, it will be a miserable time here for the foreseeable future.
If AAG looses a 2500 member pilot group, who's gonna replace 'em ,...... especially in this environment???
More appropriately,.....who's gonna replace 'em in 2016 and beyond when the next round of 175s start rolling in!?!?!
To my knowledge, the flight schools ain't crankin' out pilots like they were in 1998. So Bedford can't do it. Ornstein can't do it. Atkin can't do it. PSA, PDT won't be able to do it. Whiskey is the only group who might have a shot at it, but their costs are already too high.
It's a serious question. Who is "plan B"?
Envoy pilots are holding a pretty nice handful of cards. You guys would do well to remind each other of that, from time to time.
Last edited by Slick111; 07-27-2014 at 10:07 AM.
#227
I am not optimistic that these talks will yield anything at all either. We have a pilot group that has directed their MEC to not accept any concessions. At the same time, we have a management hired gun who will not accept anything BUT concessions. I see the talks most likely breaking down and one or both sides walking away.
And I am strangely fine with that.
And I am strangely fine with that.
It's gonna be painful. Make the gain worth the pain.
Last edited by Slick111; 07-27-2014 at 10:16 AM.
#228
Something tells me their plan "B" is Piedmont. It seems our (PDT's) negotiating committee has been close to a deal for about a month now but a couple of major issues are stopping a deal from being closed, those 2 main issues being increased health care costs and AAG's unwillingness to commit in writing to a specific number of new aircraft deliveries.
I think AAG is waiting out Envoy. If you guys end up rejecting a deal they will complete our deal at PDT by commiting to aircraft. Question is what's the rest of the PDT deal and is it awful enough for our group to vote no on, sending AAG back to the drawing board.
I think AAG is waiting out Envoy. If you guys end up rejecting a deal they will complete our deal at PDT by commiting to aircraft. Question is what's the rest of the PDT deal and is it awful enough for our group to vote no on, sending AAG back to the drawing board.
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