The useful Envoy thread
10-26-2014, 08:14 AM
#911
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 545
Originally Posted by WmuGrad07
It was said that "we want to focus envoy in markets that we know they're good at. Those being Dallas and Chicago." with the crj's leaving it makes sense.
In the event of a new contract and a new fleet type, those plans may and probably will change. It is highly unlikely AA will keep the E-175s in ORD and DFW only.
We will know soon enough. It's all speculation at this point.
10-27-2014, 06:30 AM
#912
Does NOT get weekends off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: ERJ - 145
Posts: 1,631
Originally Posted by RJ Pilot
Don't shoot the messenger, But this is what he told me. I hope thats not the case but nothing surprises me now a days.
Good Luck.
Good Luck.
10-27-2014, 07:48 AM
#913
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,648
Originally Posted by embraer
Parker made that comment under the premise that the ERJ-145 would be our only fleet type.
In the event of a new contract and a new fleet type, those plans may and probably will change. It is highly unlikely AA will keep the E-175s in ORD and DFW only.
We will know soon enough. It's all speculation at this point.
In the event of a new contract and a new fleet type, those plans may and probably will change. It is highly unlikely AA will keep the E-175s in ORD and DFW only.
We will know soon enough. It's all speculation at this point.
10-27-2014, 09:33 AM
#914
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,054
I really don't think anything will save MIA or NY at this point. Those wanting to capitulate to this new deal for that reason, should not.
That being said, I think it is time for us to be a bit more practical about all this. The company has proven they can move forward without us, at least so far. Now that Piece of Poop Airlines has gotten our CRJs, they are re invigorating their slowly failing recruitment attempts with our young FOs. Essentially they, along with the help of ALPA, are helping Chug-A-Doug reverse our seniority list.
I actually don't blame PDT as much: they fought the good fight for years against the likes of PSA, and lost. If you read through their contract, it is actually a great deal for them.
Now though, we are faced with closure, and a huge loss of career income and movement as many are forced to go work at the bottom of some other list. I just don't see how that helps the industry at all, or particularly our young FOs and CAs. If the company has come back to negotiate in good faith, let's see what we can get. We know they want 12/4 and some other ancillary cuts(per diem, 2 yr pay freeze, 10 yr term, health care hikes). What are they willing to give? I hear the 40 175s plus all options, plus $10k cash, plus more flow.
Is this better than being shut down and starting over somewhere else? Personally, I am barely over the line at this point, but one thing that does tantalize me is the notion that it would actually stop PSA from being able to staff as well, and would take up more spots a AA so they would have a harder time getting in from the street. Once we have been cheapened, they will go after that precious SAP mistake and PSA will bend over quickly, as they have proven they are good at, and give it up just to solidify their preferential hiring to be actual flows, like we already have. Let's face it, there is no way in hell they'll let them keep that mess up.
Yeah that kinda does it for me: let's stop PSA from getting our FOs and also be a new source of hiring with a better flow. That will leave the bottom of the barrel for PSA and slow their progress more than us dying on the sword they are reaping the benefits from.
(Yes I hate PSA still. 23 jump seats denied!!)
That being said, I think it is time for us to be a bit more practical about all this. The company has proven they can move forward without us, at least so far. Now that Piece of Poop Airlines has gotten our CRJs, they are re invigorating their slowly failing recruitment attempts with our young FOs. Essentially they, along with the help of ALPA, are helping Chug-A-Doug reverse our seniority list.
I actually don't blame PDT as much: they fought the good fight for years against the likes of PSA, and lost. If you read through their contract, it is actually a great deal for them.
Now though, we are faced with closure, and a huge loss of career income and movement as many are forced to go work at the bottom of some other list. I just don't see how that helps the industry at all, or particularly our young FOs and CAs. If the company has come back to negotiate in good faith, let's see what we can get. We know they want 12/4 and some other ancillary cuts(per diem, 2 yr pay freeze, 10 yr term, health care hikes). What are they willing to give? I hear the 40 175s plus all options, plus $10k cash, plus more flow.
Is this better than being shut down and starting over somewhere else? Personally, I am barely over the line at this point, but one thing that does tantalize me is the notion that it would actually stop PSA from being able to staff as well, and would take up more spots a AA so they would have a harder time getting in from the street. Once we have been cheapened, they will go after that precious SAP mistake and PSA will bend over quickly, as they have proven they are good at, and give it up just to solidify their preferential hiring to be actual flows, like we already have. Let's face it, there is no way in hell they'll let them keep that mess up.
Yeah that kinda does it for me: let's stop PSA from getting our FOs and also be a new source of hiring with a better flow. That will leave the bottom of the barrel for PSA and slow their progress more than us dying on the sword they are reaping the benefits from.
(Yes I hate PSA still. 23 jump seats denied!!)
10-27-2014, 09:47 AM
#916
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Left
Posts: 1,809
Originally Posted by PilotCrusader
I really don't think anything will save MIA or NY at this point. Those wanting to capitulate to this new deal for that reason, should not.
That being said, I think it is time for us to be a bit more practical about all this. The company has proven they can move forward without us, at least so far. Now that Piece of Poop Airlines has gotten our CRJs, they are re invigorating their slowly failing recruitment attempts with our young FOs. Essentially they, along with the help of ALPA, are helping Chug-A-Doug reverse our seniority list.
I actually don't blame PDT as much: they fought the good fight for years against the likes of PSA, and lost. If you read through their contract, it is actually a great deal for them.
Now though, we are faced with closure, and a huge loss of career income and movement as many are forced to go work at the bottom of some other list. I just don't see how that helps the industry at all, or particularly our young FOs and CAs. If the company has come back to negotiate in good faith, let's see what we can get. We know they want 12/4 and some other ancillary cuts(per diem, 2 yr pay freeze, 10 yr term, health care hikes). What are they willing to give? I hear the 40 175s plus all options, plus $10k cash, plus more flow.
Is this better than being shut down and starting over somewhere else? Personally, I am barely over the line at this point, but one thing that does tantalize me is the notion that it would actually stop PSA from being able to staff as well, and would take up more spots a AA so they would have a harder time getting in from the street. Once we have been cheapened, they will go after that precious SAP mistake and PSA will bend over quickly, as they have proven they are good at, and give it up just to solidify their preferential hiring to be actual flows, like we already have. Let's face it, there is no way in hell they'll let them keep that mess up.
Yeah that kinda does it for me: let's stop PSA from getting our FOs and also be a new source of hiring with a better flow. That will leave the bottom of the barrel for PSA and slow their progress more than us dying on the sword they are reaping the benefits from.
(Yes I hate PSA still. 23 jump seats denied!!)
That being said, I think it is time for us to be a bit more practical about all this. The company has proven they can move forward without us, at least so far. Now that Piece of Poop Airlines has gotten our CRJs, they are re invigorating their slowly failing recruitment attempts with our young FOs. Essentially they, along with the help of ALPA, are helping Chug-A-Doug reverse our seniority list.
I actually don't blame PDT as much: they fought the good fight for years against the likes of PSA, and lost. If you read through their contract, it is actually a great deal for them.
Now though, we are faced with closure, and a huge loss of career income and movement as many are forced to go work at the bottom of some other list. I just don't see how that helps the industry at all, or particularly our young FOs and CAs. If the company has come back to negotiate in good faith, let's see what we can get. We know they want 12/4 and some other ancillary cuts(per diem, 2 yr pay freeze, 10 yr term, health care hikes). What are they willing to give? I hear the 40 175s plus all options, plus $10k cash, plus more flow.
Is this better than being shut down and starting over somewhere else? Personally, I am barely over the line at this point, but one thing that does tantalize me is the notion that it would actually stop PSA from being able to staff as well, and would take up more spots a AA so they would have a harder time getting in from the street. Once we have been cheapened, they will go after that precious SAP mistake and PSA will bend over quickly, as they have proven they are good at, and give it up just to solidify their preferential hiring to be actual flows, like we already have. Let's face it, there is no way in hell they'll let them keep that mess up.
Yeah that kinda does it for me: let's stop PSA from getting our FOs and also be a new source of hiring with a better flow. That will leave the bottom of the barrel for PSA and slow their progress more than us dying on the sword they are reaping the benefits from.
(Yes I hate PSA still. 23 jump seats denied!!)
So it's ok to "lower the bar" just to put it to PSA now? Way to justify what you now know is a sound business decision for yourself and the rest of the pilots at Eagle.
You were very, very vocal previously that "lowering the bar" was NOT ok under any circumstances.
Now it's acceptable because you have found out that what you were being told all along was true in that AAG was not bluffing with their "ComairII" threat?
What a joke.
Keep bidding trips to fly to PSA bases in order to deny jumpseats. If your life is that terrible that it gives you some sort of obscene pleasure you probably need all the help you can get.
10-27-2014, 10:22 AM
#917
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 781
Originally Posted by PilotCrusader
I really don't think anything will save MIA or NY at this point. Those wanting to capitulate to this new deal for that reason, should not.
That being said, I think it is time for us to be a bit more practical about all this. The company has proven they can move forward without us, at least so far. Now that Piece of Poop Airlines has gotten our CRJs, they are re invigorating their slowly failing recruitment attempts with our young FOs. Essentially they, along with the help of ALPA, are helping Chug-A-Doug reverse our seniority list.
I actually don't blame PDT as much: they fought the good fight for years against the likes of PSA, and lost. If you read through their contract, it is actually a great deal for them.
Now though, we are faced with closure, and a huge loss of career income and movement as many are forced to go work at the bottom of some other list. I just don't see how that helps the industry at all, or particularly our young FOs and CAs. If the company has come back to negotiate in good faith, let's see what we can get. We know they want 12/4 and some other ancillary cuts(per diem, 2 yr pay freeze, 10 yr term, health care hikes). What are they willing to give? I hear the 40 175s plus all options, plus $10k cash, plus more flow.
Is this better than being shut down and starting over somewhere else? Personally, I am barely over the line at this point, but one thing that does tantalize me is the notion that it would actually stop PSA from being able to staff as well, and would take up more spots a AA so they would have a harder time getting in from the street. Once we have been cheapened, they will go after that precious SAP mistake and PSA will bend over quickly, as they have proven they are good at, and give it up just to solidify their preferential hiring to be actual flows, like we already have. Let's face it, there is no way in hell they'll let them keep that mess up.
Yeah that kinda does it for me: let's stop PSA from getting our FOs and also be a new source of hiring with a better flow. That will leave the bottom of the barrel for PSA and slow their progress more than us dying on the sword they are reaping the benefits from.
(Yes I hate PSA still. 23 jump seats denied!!)
That being said, I think it is time for us to be a bit more practical about all this. The company has proven they can move forward without us, at least so far. Now that Piece of Poop Airlines has gotten our CRJs, they are re invigorating their slowly failing recruitment attempts with our young FOs. Essentially they, along with the help of ALPA, are helping Chug-A-Doug reverse our seniority list.
I actually don't blame PDT as much: they fought the good fight for years against the likes of PSA, and lost. If you read through their contract, it is actually a great deal for them.
Now though, we are faced with closure, and a huge loss of career income and movement as many are forced to go work at the bottom of some other list. I just don't see how that helps the industry at all, or particularly our young FOs and CAs. If the company has come back to negotiate in good faith, let's see what we can get. We know they want 12/4 and some other ancillary cuts(per diem, 2 yr pay freeze, 10 yr term, health care hikes). What are they willing to give? I hear the 40 175s plus all options, plus $10k cash, plus more flow.
Is this better than being shut down and starting over somewhere else? Personally, I am barely over the line at this point, but one thing that does tantalize me is the notion that it would actually stop PSA from being able to staff as well, and would take up more spots a AA so they would have a harder time getting in from the street. Once we have been cheapened, they will go after that precious SAP mistake and PSA will bend over quickly, as they have proven they are good at, and give it up just to solidify their preferential hiring to be actual flows, like we already have. Let's face it, there is no way in hell they'll let them keep that mess up.
Yeah that kinda does it for me: let's stop PSA from getting our FOs and also be a new source of hiring with a better flow. That will leave the bottom of the barrel for PSA and slow their progress more than us dying on the sword they are reaping the benefits from.
(Yes I hate PSA still. 23 jump seats denied!!)
Oh and keep denying PSA pilots. When Miami closes and maybe when the 700s transfer to PSA, you're only burning the bridge for your fellow coworkers that will need a ride on the east coast. But judging from your posts, you probably don't care.
10-27-2014, 10:28 AM
#918
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: It's hot out here.
Posts: 615
Originally Posted by PilotCrusader
I really don't think anything will save MIA or NY at this point. Those wanting to capitulate to this new deal for that reason, should not.
That being said, I think it is time for us to be a bit more practical about all this. The company has proven they can move forward without us, at least so far. Now that Piece of Poop Airlines has gotten our CRJs, they are re invigorating their slowly failing recruitment attempts with our young FOs. Essentially they, along with the help of ALPA, are helping Chug-A-Doug reverse our seniority list.
I actually don't blame PDT as much: they fought the good fight for years against the likes of PSA, and lost. If you read through their contract, it is actually a great deal for them.
Now though, we are faced with closure, and a huge loss of career income and movement as many are forced to go work at the bottom of some other list. I just don't see how that helps the industry at all, or particularly our young FOs and CAs. If the company has come back to negotiate in good faith, let's see what we can get. We know they want 12/4 and some other ancillary cuts(per diem, 2 yr pay freeze, 10 yr term, health care hikes). What are they willing to give? I hear the 40 175s plus all options, plus $10k cash, plus more flow.
Is this better than being shut down and starting over somewhere else? Personally, I am barely over the line at this point, but one thing that does tantalize me is the notion that it would actually stop PSA from being able to staff as well, and would take up more spots a AA so they would have a harder time getting in from the street. Once we have been cheapened, they will go after that precious SAP mistake and PSA will bend over quickly, as they have proven they are good at, and give it up just to solidify their preferential hiring to be actual flows, like we already have. Let's face it, there is no way in hell they'll let them keep that mess up.
Yeah that kinda does it for me: let's stop PSA from getting our FOs and also be a new source of hiring with a better flow. That will leave the bottom of the barrel for PSA and slow their progress more than us dying on the sword they are reaping the benefits from.
(Yes I hate PSA still. 23 jump seats denied!!)
That being said, I think it is time for us to be a bit more practical about all this. The company has proven they can move forward without us, at least so far. Now that Piece of Poop Airlines has gotten our CRJs, they are re invigorating their slowly failing recruitment attempts with our young FOs. Essentially they, along with the help of ALPA, are helping Chug-A-Doug reverse our seniority list.
I actually don't blame PDT as much: they fought the good fight for years against the likes of PSA, and lost. If you read through their contract, it is actually a great deal for them.
Now though, we are faced with closure, and a huge loss of career income and movement as many are forced to go work at the bottom of some other list. I just don't see how that helps the industry at all, or particularly our young FOs and CAs. If the company has come back to negotiate in good faith, let's see what we can get. We know they want 12/4 and some other ancillary cuts(per diem, 2 yr pay freeze, 10 yr term, health care hikes). What are they willing to give? I hear the 40 175s plus all options, plus $10k cash, plus more flow.
Is this better than being shut down and starting over somewhere else? Personally, I am barely over the line at this point, but one thing that does tantalize me is the notion that it would actually stop PSA from being able to staff as well, and would take up more spots a AA so they would have a harder time getting in from the street. Once we have been cheapened, they will go after that precious SAP mistake and PSA will bend over quickly, as they have proven they are good at, and give it up just to solidify their preferential hiring to be actual flows, like we already have. Let's face it, there is no way in hell they'll let them keep that mess up.
Yeah that kinda does it for me: let's stop PSA from getting our FOs and also be a new source of hiring with a better flow. That will leave the bottom of the barrel for PSA and slow their progress more than us dying on the sword they are reaping the benefits from.
(Yes I hate PSA still. 23 jump seats denied!!)
10-27-2014, 11:33 AM
#919
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,054
Originally Posted by pagey
LOL.
So it's ok to "lower the bar" just to put it to PSA now? Way to justify what you now know is a sound business decision for yourself and the rest of the pilots at Eagle.
You were very, very vocal previously that "lowering the bar" was NOT ok under any circumstances.
Now it's acceptable because you have found out that what you were being told all along was true in that AAG was not bluffing with their "ComairII" threat?
What a joke.
Keep bidding trips to fly to PSA bases in order to deny jumpseats. If your life is that terrible that it gives you some sort of obscene pleasure you probably need all the help you can get.
So it's ok to "lower the bar" just to put it to PSA now? Way to justify what you now know is a sound business decision for yourself and the rest of the pilots at Eagle.
You were very, very vocal previously that "lowering the bar" was NOT ok under any circumstances.
Now it's acceptable because you have found out that what you were being told all along was true in that AAG was not bluffing with their "ComairII" threat?
What a joke.
Keep bidding trips to fly to PSA bases in order to deny jumpseats. If your life is that terrible that it gives you some sort of obscene pleasure you probably need all the help you can get.
Last edited by PilotCrusader; 10-27-2014 at 11:47 AM.
10-27-2014, 11:36 AM
#920
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,054
Originally Posted by skypilot35
While I understand your logic I think your point is very subjective. Take a step back and look at what you've written. You are suggesting a "WHIPSAW". It will never stop if you capitulate. Keep denying the jumpseats if it helps you sleep, but hold your ground.
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