The useful Envoy thread
10-27-2014, 04:36 PM
#951
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 200
Originally Posted by skyxbomb
So did you talk to yourself for 7 more minutes after the vm cuts off at the 3 minute mark?
I hope they'll keep Mia open and won't transfer the 700s. Along with 10k bonus and promise of the new e jets, that should be enough to get the group to pass it. Although 12/4 cap on only new hires is a little dirty.
I hope they'll keep Mia open and won't transfer the 700s. Along with 10k bonus and promise of the new e jets, that should be enough to get the group to pass it. Although 12/4 cap on only new hires is a little dirty.
Please don't tell me you're planning to stay ??
10-27-2014, 04:45 PM
#953
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by dynamic psi
The only problem with this argument is that PSA, PDT and Eaglevoy are eventually going to be merged. I'm quite certain that as the failed efforts to hire meaningful numbers to staff any of the 3 wholly owned regionals continues to materialize over this next year, that we're going to hear very credible rumors and then actual statements regarding the merge. Thus, if our FO's are dumb enough to bail to PSA or PDT, they'll only end up back at a combined company with a worse hire date than they had originally. Deservingly I might add!
10-27-2014, 04:55 PM
#954
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Position: Satisfied
Posts: 379
Originally Posted by TallFlyer
I'm in class with a no voter now. I don't know how many are in the class that started today.
Honest question, why don't you stay put? Pm me if you don't wanna post it.
10-27-2014, 05:15 PM
#956
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by HobGoblin
Why are you so sure we will be merged together? Also, do mergers happen by date of hire, or predicted career progression?
What AA will likely do in the future to try to maintain that regional model is after all the wholly owned regionals are merged, and even that effort begins to fail, ALL AA hiring will shift to placement at the combined Eagle-voy. That's years down the road though and will only occur once certain triggering events have occured.
During a merge, especially between same union carriers, it is generally date of hire that dictates the combined seniority list. There are of course always negotiations that happen to one extent or another but generally it's date of hire.
If you think I'm off base, add up all the retirement numbers for AA, USAir, UAL, DAL, Alaska, UPS, FDX, SWA. It's mindboggling. Unless the FAA drops a mandatory retirement age limit all together and goes solely off medical requirements, then the numbers speak for themselves. Then look at Europe's carriers retirement numbers, they're even higher than ours. Then look at Asia's growth numbers. Do some easy math. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what's coming. The upper managers know it, see it and have plans for how to handle it. First, try to get scope relief to shift more and more flying to the regional model, to buy more time. If that fails, then.... what I wrote above.
10-27-2014, 05:42 PM
#959
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by dynamic psi
There's only so much growth potential out there. Parker is pushing APA hard for scope relief. Without their pensions as leverage anymore, APA has a much greater reason to say no. They know what's going on both at their level as well as the regional level. There is a generational turnover of pilots occuring. It's just getting started now and will continue to hasten as the months and years go on. While PSA, PDT, and SKW may be able to hire and staff as necessary for the time being, those efforts will fail miserably starting next summer. WHY? HOW? Because the proverbial flood gates of hiring is going to take off next year. The retirement numbers are going to escalate for the next 10 years. Unless the mainline managements are able to procure scope relief, there is NO way that the majors will staff their overall operation. There is going to be a continued shrink overall of the regional model. As I stated in my previous post, as soon as the wholly owned regionals are UNABLE to adequately staff their hiring needs due to their own attrition rates, then the merger discussions will begin. It won't be about a whipsaw application anymore, but more about the survival of a regional model for as long as possible until the inevitable occurs; the slow fade/death of the regional model.
What AA will likely do in the future to try to maintain that regional model is after all the wholly owned regionals are merged, and even that effort begins to fail, ALL AA hiring will shift to placement at the combined Eagle-voy. That's years down the road though and will only occur once certain triggering events have occured.
During a merge, especially between same union carriers, it is generally date of hire that dictates the combined seniority list. There are of course always negotiations that happen to one extent or another but generally it's date of hire.
If you think I'm off base, add up all the retirement numbers for AA, USAir, UAL, DAL, Alaska, UPS, FDX, SWA. It's mindboggling. Unless the FAA drops a mandatory retirement age limit all together and goes solely off medical requirements, then the numbers speak for themselves. Then look at Europe's carriers retirement numbers, they're even higher than ours. Then look at Asia's growth numbers. Do some easy math. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what's coming. The upper managers know it, see it and have plans for how to handle it. First, try to get scope relief to shift more and more flying to the regional model, to buy more time. If that fails, then.... what I wrote above.
What AA will likely do in the future to try to maintain that regional model is after all the wholly owned regionals are merged, and even that effort begins to fail, ALL AA hiring will shift to placement at the combined Eagle-voy. That's years down the road though and will only occur once certain triggering events have occured.
During a merge, especially between same union carriers, it is generally date of hire that dictates the combined seniority list. There are of course always negotiations that happen to one extent or another but generally it's date of hire.
If you think I'm off base, add up all the retirement numbers for AA, USAir, UAL, DAL, Alaska, UPS, FDX, SWA. It's mindboggling. Unless the FAA drops a mandatory retirement age limit all together and goes solely off medical requirements, then the numbers speak for themselves. Then look at Europe's carriers retirement numbers, they're even higher than ours. Then look at Asia's growth numbers. Do some easy math. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what's coming. The upper managers know it, see it and have plans for how to handle it. First, try to get scope relief to shift more and more flying to the regional model, to buy more time. If that fails, then.... what I wrote above.
10-27-2014, 05:43 PM
#960
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,484
Originally Posted by dynamic psi
There's only so much growth potential out there. Parker is pushing APA hard for scope relief. Without their pensions as leverage anymore, APA has a much greater reason to say no. They know what's going on both at their level as well as the regional level. There is a generational turnover of pilots occuring. It's just getting started now and will continue to hasten as the months and years go on. While PSA, PDT, and SKW may be able to hire and staff as necessary for the time being, those efforts will fail miserably starting next summer. WHY? HOW? Because the proverbial flood gates of hiring is going to take off next year. The retirement numbers are going to escalate for the next 10 years. Unless the mainline managements are able to procure scope relief, there is NO way that the majors will staff their overall operation. There is going to be a continued shrink overall of the regional model. As I stated in my previous post, as soon as the wholly owned regionals are UNABLE to adequately staff their hiring needs due to their own attrition rates, then the merger discussions will begin. It won't be about a whipsaw application anymore, but more about the survival of a regional model for as long as possible until the inevitable occurs; the slow fade/death of the regional model.
What AA will likely do in the future to try to maintain that regional model is after all the wholly owned regionals are merged, and even that effort begins to fail, ALL AA hiring will shift to placement at the combined Eagle-voy. That's years down the road though and will only occur once certain triggering events have occured.
During a merge, especially between same union carriers, it is generally date of hire that dictates the combined seniority list. There are of course always negotiations that happen to one extent or another but generally it's date of hire.
If you think I'm off base, add up all the retirement numbers for AA, USAir, UAL, DAL, Alaska, UPS, FDX, SWA. It's mindboggling. Unless the FAA drops a mandatory retirement age limit all together and goes solely off medical requirements, then the numbers speak for themselves. Then look at Europe's carriers retirement numbers, they're even higher than ours. Then look at Asia's growth numbers. Do some easy math. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what's coming. The upper managers know it, see it and have plans for how to handle it. First, try to get scope relief to shift more and more flying to the regional model, to buy more time. If that fails, then.... what I wrote above.
What AA will likely do in the future to try to maintain that regional model is after all the wholly owned regionals are merged, and even that effort begins to fail, ALL AA hiring will shift to placement at the combined Eagle-voy. That's years down the road though and will only occur once certain triggering events have occured.
During a merge, especially between same union carriers, it is generally date of hire that dictates the combined seniority list. There are of course always negotiations that happen to one extent or another but generally it's date of hire.
If you think I'm off base, add up all the retirement numbers for AA, USAir, UAL, DAL, Alaska, UPS, FDX, SWA. It's mindboggling. Unless the FAA drops a mandatory retirement age limit all together and goes solely off medical requirements, then the numbers speak for themselves. Then look at Europe's carriers retirement numbers, they're even higher than ours. Then look at Asia's growth numbers. Do some easy math. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what's coming. The upper managers know it, see it and have plans for how to handle it. First, try to get scope relief to shift more and more flying to the regional model, to buy more time. If that fails, then.... what I wrote above.
First off, if AAG, DAL, or UAL wants to operate X number of airplanes, be they regional or mainline, a pilot shortage is a shortage. Sure, under your theory of wanting scope relief to solve the shortage issue, the mainline carriers will shrink, but the pilots needed to staff the theoretical increase of the regionals have to come from somewhere.
Second, if you think mergers are all about DOH, you obviously haven't read anything AT ALL in some of the merger threads in the majors section.
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