Need Advice - Comparing Offers-Express/Envoy
08-08-2014, 10:04 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 280
Need Advice - Comparing Offers-Express/Envoy
Before I start, let me say that I browsed through quite a bit of the ExpressJet and Envoy(Eagle) threads and still feel it is necessary to make this post in order to get the information/opinions I need.
I'm currently entering my senior year at a university as part of its flight program. We currently have arrangements with Envoy, ExpressJet, and Skywest.
I've been more interested in, and been comparing, Envoy and ExpressJet. From my admittedly basic understanding of the nature of the two airlines, I lean more towards wanting to fly with ExpressJet. However, Envoy's offer is far more enticing.
Currently, ExpressJet offers a 'guaranteed' job to graduates of our university (upon reaching 1000 hours of course).
Envoy, on the other hand, does offer a 'guaranteed' job. However, they also are offering a $10,000 signing bonus, which is something I don't believe ExpressJet is offering at any value amount. Envoy is also offering full benefits while flight instructing at the University (or one of their other approved flight schools). This ranges from health benefits to flight benefits.
I'll be flying down to Atlanta with others this upcoming week to do a tour of the ExpressJet and Delta facilities there, along with informational sessions and what not over a two day time span.
Looking for some input. Envoy's recent issues makes me rather hesitant to run over and sign up, but those incentives are quite effective.
I'm currently entering my senior year at a university as part of its flight program. We currently have arrangements with Envoy, ExpressJet, and Skywest.
I've been more interested in, and been comparing, Envoy and ExpressJet. From my admittedly basic understanding of the nature of the two airlines, I lean more towards wanting to fly with ExpressJet. However, Envoy's offer is far more enticing.
Currently, ExpressJet offers a 'guaranteed' job to graduates of our university (upon reaching 1000 hours of course).
Envoy, on the other hand, does offer a 'guaranteed' job. However, they also are offering a $10,000 signing bonus, which is something I don't believe ExpressJet is offering at any value amount. Envoy is also offering full benefits while flight instructing at the University (or one of their other approved flight schools). This ranges from health benefits to flight benefits.
I'll be flying down to Atlanta with others this upcoming week to do a tour of the ExpressJet and Delta facilities there, along with informational sessions and what not over a two day time span.
Looking for some input. Envoy's recent issues makes me rather hesitant to run over and sign up, but those incentives are quite effective.
08-08-2014, 10:20 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 516
Originally Posted by Bravix
Before I start, let me say that I browsed through quite a bit of the ExpressJet and Envoy(Eagle) threads and still feel it is necessary to make this post in order to get the information/opinions I need.
I'm currently entering my senior year at a university as part of its flight program. We currently have arrangements with Envoy, ExpressJet, and Skywest.
I've been more interested in, and been comparing, Envoy and ExpressJet. From my admittedly basic understanding of the nature of the two airlines, I lean more towards wanting to fly with ExpressJet. However, Envoy's offer is far more enticing.
Currently, ExpressJet offers a 'guaranteed' job to graduates of our university (upon reaching 1000 hours of course).
Envoy, on the other hand, does offer a 'guaranteed' job. However, they also are offering a $10,000 signing bonus, which is something I don't believe ExpressJet is offering at any value amount. Envoy is also offering full benefits while flight instructing at the University (or one of their other approved flight schools). This ranges from health benefits to flight benefits.
I'll be flying down to Atlanta with others this upcoming week to do a tour of the ExpressJet and Delta facilities there, along with informational sessions and what not over a two day time span.
Looking for some input. Envoy's recent issues makes me rather hesitant to run over and sign up, but those incentives are quite effective.
I'm currently entering my senior year at a university as part of its flight program. We currently have arrangements with Envoy, ExpressJet, and Skywest.
I've been more interested in, and been comparing, Envoy and ExpressJet. From my admittedly basic understanding of the nature of the two airlines, I lean more towards wanting to fly with ExpressJet. However, Envoy's offer is far more enticing.
Currently, ExpressJet offers a 'guaranteed' job to graduates of our university (upon reaching 1000 hours of course).
Envoy, on the other hand, does offer a 'guaranteed' job. However, they also are offering a $10,000 signing bonus, which is something I don't believe ExpressJet is offering at any value amount. Envoy is also offering full benefits while flight instructing at the University (or one of their other approved flight schools). This ranges from health benefits to flight benefits.
I'll be flying down to Atlanta with others this upcoming week to do a tour of the ExpressJet and Delta facilities there, along with informational sessions and what not over a two day time span.
Looking for some input. Envoy's recent issues makes me rather hesitant to run over and sign up, but those incentives are quite effective.
Despite the nice show ExpressJet may have put on for your school, they not hiring any pilots right now, zero, zip, nada. They are contracting significantly.
Fleet reduction numbers:
Through end of 2014:
-----
XJT - 52 aircraft (17 CRJ2 - 35 ERJ 145)
SKW - 4 aircraft (CRJ2)
2015:
-----
XJT - 79 aircraft (20 CRJ2 - 59 ERJ 145)
SKW - 22 aircraft (22 CRJ2)
As far as American Eagle, why don't you go spend some time reading through their current thread (or the 10 others that have been locked over the past weeks.) That should give you a rough idea.
08-08-2014, 10:23 PM
#3
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Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 516
Just curious, you seem very fixated on the idea of a "Guaranteed Job", why is that?
Sometimes, the sure thing, isn't the best option. Don't sell yourself short on options.
Sometimes, the sure thing, isn't the best option. Don't sell yourself short on options.
08-08-2014, 10:24 PM
#4
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 280
Originally Posted by SMACFUM
Wow........Yeah, might want to do some research on both those carriers before making any decisions.
Despite the nice show ExpressJet may have put on for your school, they not hiring any pilots right now, zero, zip, nada. They are contracting significantly.
Fleet reduction numbers:
Through end of 2014:
-----
XJT - 52 aircraft (17 CRJ2 - 35 ERJ 145)
SKW - 4 aircraft (CRJ2)
2015:
-----
XJT - 79 aircraft (20 CRJ2 - 59 ERJ 145)
SKW - 22 aircraft (22 CRJ2)
As far as American Eagle, why don't you go spend some time reading through their current thread (or the 10 others that have been locked over the past weeks.) That should give you a rough idea.
Despite the nice show ExpressJet may have put on for your school, they not hiring any pilots right now, zero, zip, nada. They are contracting significantly.
Fleet reduction numbers:
Through end of 2014:
-----
XJT - 52 aircraft (17 CRJ2 - 35 ERJ 145)
SKW - 4 aircraft (CRJ2)
2015:
-----
XJT - 79 aircraft (20 CRJ2 - 59 ERJ 145)
SKW - 22 aircraft (22 CRJ2)
As far as American Eagle, why don't you go spend some time reading through their current thread (or the 10 others that have been locked over the past weeks.) That should give you a rough idea.
Yeah I've browsed through some of the Eagle/Envoy threads, though its a battle of persistence as I wade through the plethora of off-topic comments (I'm looking at you "The useful Envoy thread")
Originally Posted by SMACFUM
Just curious, you seem very fixated on the idea of a "Guaranteed Job", why is that?
Sometimes, the sure thing, isn't the best option. Don't sell yourself short on options.
Sometimes, the sure thing, isn't the best option. Don't sell yourself short on options.
08-08-2014, 10:31 PM
#5
Living the Dream
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,795
Glad you're doing research, and you seem well-read on the facts. But if you spend any significant amount of time on these boards (or talking to regional pilots), you pretty quickly get an idea of these companies' outlooks. And they're not good.
Envoy is being downsized, their future doesn't look bright. They're doing some further negotiations with American Airlines right now. Some employees are optimistic, many are not. Skim through the Envoy threads and you'll get an idea.
ExpressJet is in a similar boat. They're losing money, they have 50-seat jets that are no longer profitable to fly, and SkyWest (their owner) is allowing them to shrink as their planes stop flying (once contracts end).
Here's a big red flag with each of the airlines: their upgrade time is non-existent. Upgrade time is how long it takes to become a Captain. This is important because your end goal is probably to go to a major airline (United, Delta, etc.). To fly for one of them, you need Turbine PIC time (i.e. Captain time). If you never upgrade, or it takes you a long time, it takes that much longer to get to those bigger, better airlines.
A few regionals have upgrade times under 2 years (this is considered extremely fast). But because they're shrinking, Envoy and ExpressJet don't need Captains. This means almost no upgrades for the foreseeable future, and pilots are stuck as permanent First Officers with low pay and no real shot at the majors. Many have gone to other airlines and started from the bottom again.
My advice to you is to go to one of those other airlines with a good outlook so you only need to start at the bottom once. Pick right the first time. I have many friends at ExpressJet and Envoy, unfortunately none of them have upgraded and they'll more than likely end up going to another regional to start over. That's why I hope negotiations work out for Envoy, to prevent that, but we'll see what happens. Some of those friends have predicted their respective airline won't be around in several years, and that's a credible prediction.
Good luck to you in whatever choice you make, but just consider this: the regionals need pilots and you practically have a guaranteed job anywhere you want, so there's no need to commit yourself to any carrier right now. This is especially true if you have hundreds of hours of flight instructing to do first. Build your time, see how the industry looks when you near your 1000 hours.
Again, good luck with whatever career path you choose!
Envoy is being downsized, their future doesn't look bright. They're doing some further negotiations with American Airlines right now. Some employees are optimistic, many are not. Skim through the Envoy threads and you'll get an idea.
ExpressJet is in a similar boat. They're losing money, they have 50-seat jets that are no longer profitable to fly, and SkyWest (their owner) is allowing them to shrink as their planes stop flying (once contracts end).
Here's a big red flag with each of the airlines: their upgrade time is non-existent. Upgrade time is how long it takes to become a Captain. This is important because your end goal is probably to go to a major airline (United, Delta, etc.). To fly for one of them, you need Turbine PIC time (i.e. Captain time). If you never upgrade, or it takes you a long time, it takes that much longer to get to those bigger, better airlines.
A few regionals have upgrade times under 2 years (this is considered extremely fast). But because they're shrinking, Envoy and ExpressJet don't need Captains. This means almost no upgrades for the foreseeable future, and pilots are stuck as permanent First Officers with low pay and no real shot at the majors. Many have gone to other airlines and started from the bottom again.
My advice to you is to go to one of those other airlines with a good outlook so you only need to start at the bottom once. Pick right the first time. I have many friends at ExpressJet and Envoy, unfortunately none of them have upgraded and they'll more than likely end up going to another regional to start over. That's why I hope negotiations work out for Envoy, to prevent that, but we'll see what happens. Some of those friends have predicted their respective airline won't be around in several years, and that's a credible prediction.
Good luck to you in whatever choice you make, but just consider this: the regionals need pilots and you practically have a guaranteed job anywhere you want, so there's no need to commit yourself to any carrier right now. This is especially true if you have hundreds of hours of flight instructing to do first. Build your time, see how the industry looks when you near your 1000 hours.
Again, good luck with whatever career path you choose!
08-08-2014, 10:33 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 516
Originally Posted by Bravix
Yeah, that's why I noted it as a 'guaranteed' job. They guarantee you a job, they just don't mention WHEN you'll get that job.
Yeah I've browsed through some of the Eagle/Envoy threads, though its a battle of persistence as I wade through the plethora of off-topic comments (I'm looking at you "The useful Envoy thread")
Yeah I've browsed through some of the Eagle/Envoy threads, though its a battle of persistence as I wade through the plethora of off-topic comments (I'm looking at you "The useful Envoy thread")
All I'm saying is do your research, and don't be taken by the fancy presentations, and the whole "Guaranteed Job" gimmicks. There are many, many options out there, and just because they aren't guaranteed, doesn't mean they aren't worth exploring.
How far away are you from graduating and/or meeting ATP mins? Because if it is anything over 12 months from now. The regional landscape could, and probably will look quite different than it does today. Two years from now......forget about it, it's anybody's guess. Keep reading, keep an eye onto what's going on, and then make your decision.
08-08-2014, 10:34 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 280
Originally Posted by deltajuliet
Glad you're doing research, and you seem well-read on the facts. But if you spend any significant amount of time on these boards (or talking to regional pilots), you pretty quickly get an idea of these companies' outlooks. And they're not good.
Envoy is being downsized, their future doesn't look bright. They're doing some further negotiations with American Airlines right now. Some employees are optimistic, many are not. Skim through the Envoy threads and you'll get an idea.
ExpressJet is in a similar boat. They're losing money, they have 50-seat jets that are no longer profitable to fly, and SkyWest (their owner) is allowing them to shrink as their planes stop flying (once contracts end).
Here's a big red flag with each of the airlines: their upgrade time is non-existent. Upgrade time is how long it takes to become a Captain. This is important because your end goal is probably to go to a major airline (United, Delta, etc.). To fly for one of them, you need Turbine PIC time (i.e. Captain time). If you never upgrade, or it takes you a long time, it takes that much longer to get to those bigger, better airlines.
A few regionals have upgrade times under 2 years (this is considered extremely fast). But because they're shrinking, Envoy and ExpressJet don't need Captains. This means almost no upgrades for the foreseeable future, and pilots are stuck as permanent First Officers with low pay and no real shot at the majors. Many have gone to other airlines and started from the bottom again.
My advice to you is to go to one of those other airlines with a good outlook so you only need to start at the bottom once. Pick right the first time. I have many friends at ExpressJet and Envoy, unfortunately none of them have upgraded and they'll more than likely end up going to another regional to start over. That's why I hope negotiations work out for Envoy, to prevent that, but we'll see what happens. Some of those friends have predicted their respective airline won't be around in several years, and that's a credible prediction.
Good luck to you in whatever choice you make, but just consider this: the regionals need pilots and you practically have a guaranteed job anywhere you want, so there's no need to commit yourself to any carrier right now. This is especially true if you have hundreds of hours of flight instructing to do first. Build your time, see how the industry looks when you near your 1000 hours.
Again, good luck with whatever career path you choose!
Envoy is being downsized, their future doesn't look bright. They're doing some further negotiations with American Airlines right now. Some employees are optimistic, many are not. Skim through the Envoy threads and you'll get an idea.
ExpressJet is in a similar boat. They're losing money, they have 50-seat jets that are no longer profitable to fly, and SkyWest (their owner) is allowing them to shrink as their planes stop flying (once contracts end).
Here's a big red flag with each of the airlines: their upgrade time is non-existent. Upgrade time is how long it takes to become a Captain. This is important because your end goal is probably to go to a major airline (United, Delta, etc.). To fly for one of them, you need Turbine PIC time (i.e. Captain time). If you never upgrade, or it takes you a long time, it takes that much longer to get to those bigger, better airlines.
A few regionals have upgrade times under 2 years (this is considered extremely fast). But because they're shrinking, Envoy and ExpressJet don't need Captains. This means almost no upgrades for the foreseeable future, and pilots are stuck as permanent First Officers with low pay and no real shot at the majors. Many have gone to other airlines and started from the bottom again.
My advice to you is to go to one of those other airlines with a good outlook so you only need to start at the bottom once. Pick right the first time. I have many friends at ExpressJet and Envoy, unfortunately none of them have upgraded and they'll more than likely end up going to another regional to start over. That's why I hope negotiations work out for Envoy, to prevent that, but we'll see what happens. Some of those friends have predicted their respective airline won't be around in several years, and that's a credible prediction.
Good luck to you in whatever choice you make, but just consider this: the regionals need pilots and you practically have a guaranteed job anywhere you want, so there's no need to commit yourself to any carrier right now. This is especially true if you have hundreds of hours of flight instructing to do first. Build your time, see how the industry looks when you near your 1000 hours.
Again, good luck with whatever career path you choose!
Yeah, time is certainly on my side. I don't intend to make a decision in the next few months (or year for that matter). I'm just starting my research early so I'm not scrambling for information at the last minute.
08-08-2014, 10:39 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 280
Originally Posted by SMACFUM
Right, I understand wading through all the BS gets tiresome real quick, it sucks. But honestly, those Eagle guys have every right to be ****ed off as much as they are.
All I'm saying is do your research, and don't be taken by the fancy presentations, and the whole "Guaranteed Job" gimmicks. There are many, many options out there, and just because they aren't guaranteed, doesn't mean they aren't worth exploring.
How far away are you from graduating and/or meeting ATP mins? Because if it is anything over 12 months from now. The regional landscape could, and probably will look quite different than it does today. Two years from now......it's anybody's guess. Keep reading, keep an eye onto what's going on, and then make your decision.
All I'm saying is do your research, and don't be taken by the fancy presentations, and the whole "Guaranteed Job" gimmicks. There are many, many options out there, and just because they aren't guaranteed, doesn't mean they aren't worth exploring.
How far away are you from graduating and/or meeting ATP mins? Because if it is anything over 12 months from now. The regional landscape could, and probably will look quite different than it does today. Two years from now......it's anybody's guess. Keep reading, keep an eye onto what's going on, and then make your decision.
08-08-2014, 10:39 PM
#9
Living the Dream
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,795
Sure thing. Invariably, the ultimate question this thread will probably evolve into is: "Who should I work for?" We argue about that day and night on these boards, but allow me to humbly offer my suggestions. Keep in mind this is as of right now; things could be different in a year.
Mesa - Fast upgrade time, stable, growing, modern fleet.
Compass - Pretty much the same as Mesa.
SkyWest - This is sort of the opposite in that it's not growing and you'll have a very long upgrade (~7 years as of now). However, many of my friends have elected to go here for its well respected treatment of employees.
Horizon - Excellent pay (at least compared to other regionals). Long upgrade, however.
One other deciding factor for you might be the bases these regionals have. I live in Phoenix, so naturally Mesa was an obvious choice for me. Again, this is my humble 2 cents, do your own homework, and best of luck.
Mesa - Fast upgrade time, stable, growing, modern fleet.
Compass - Pretty much the same as Mesa.
SkyWest - This is sort of the opposite in that it's not growing and you'll have a very long upgrade (~7 years as of now). However, many of my friends have elected to go here for its well respected treatment of employees.
Horizon - Excellent pay (at least compared to other regionals). Long upgrade, however.
One other deciding factor for you might be the bases these regionals have. I live in Phoenix, so naturally Mesa was an obvious choice for me. Again, this is my humble 2 cents, do your own homework, and best of luck.
08-08-2014, 10:41 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 516
Originally Posted by Bravix
More good info, thanks.
Yeah, time is certainly on my side. I don't intend to make a decision in the next few months (or year for that matter). I'm just starting my research early so I'm not scrambling for information at the last minute.
Yeah, time is certainly on my side. I don't intend to make a decision in the next few months (or year for that matter). I'm just starting my research early so I'm not scrambling for information at the last minute.
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