That's your problem. ALL you see is what you WANT to see. I have no vengeance against Envoy per se, or pilots there. I still talk to friends there regularly. BUT, you guys have a history of embracing strategies and philosophies that are bad both for you and others and you aren't willing to understand (in many cases, simply incapable of it) your issues. Look at this forum................I see things being done by Envoy pilots I see NOT being done by pilots of other regionals. You guys are setting yourselves apart from the pack and now look to move even farther by openly targeting other carriers to strengthen yourself at their expense.

BTW, you're talking to someone "no one takes seriously" again, so in effect, that means you must be talking to yourself. Perhaps you really are and I'm just your conscience talking to you inside you head ? :eek:

Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you.


You know, you're right. Kind of like a senile lunatic version of my self. When I envision you, this is what I see. Except, instead of a gopher, its envoy.

What does the Envoy flow percentage go to after the 824 have flowed? Also, how many of the 824 have currently flowed? Thank you for the info.

About half have flowed. The last of the 824 should flow sometime around the end of next year to March/April of 2017. The flow continues at 50% until the end of the "protected pilot group" Oct 2011 hires then it goes to 35%. There are only 100 - 200 pilots on the seniority list hired since Oct 2011. Based on AA/US retirement forecasts, there should 200 - 250 flows per year at that time. Someone hired today, will flow about 6 - 8 months after a Nov 2011 hire.

Inky13 posted a nice breakdown of it in one of the envoy threads.

Assuming you guys can keep up with the hiring......

Good Luck!

Note: I believe there is a period where the flow could decrease after the 824: The 824 goes over at 50% or minimum 30 pilots (november) until the last of the 824 leave. Then when it starts the protected pilot group, I believe it goes down to 35% until the delivery of the 40th 175. At that point it goes back up to 50%, minimum 25 pilots. Basically if the 40th 175 gets delivered on or before the last 824 pilot going over, there is no change really. If the last 824 pilot goes over and the 40th 175 has not yet been delivered, there will be a slow down until the 40th 175 is delivered. While it is possible AAG/Envoy could go over their minimums and keep the flow numbers higher, we have to assume they will do the minimum (Even though they have been doing more).

Check here for more explanation about the flow "Groups", triggers and minimums.
Envoy Air | AirlinePilotCentral.com

Oh, that's right. I knew there was a 35% in there somewhere. I guess when AAG takes control of the defunct E175 that RAH cannot staff, it won't take us long to get the 40th E175.


I guess, I am not even a good envoy salesman.

I don't have a dog in this hunt at present, but I believe this is called "Capitalism".

That said, I would trust Doug Parker about as much as I would trust a black mamba not to bite me.

In the case at hand, however, the argument that he is using flow as a means of recruitment and retention for the future makes a lot of sense. One thing is certain...all the regionals are going to have to increase their incentives going forward to attract and retain pilots. It's simple supply vs. demand economics, driven primarily by demographics (providing there isn't a big hit to the economy somewhere in the middle of all this, of course).

[QUOTE=FlameNSky;1973585I guess when AAG takes control of the defunct E175 that RAH cannot staff, it won't take us long to get the 40th E175.


I guess, I am not even a good envoy salesman.[/QUOTE]

Until the "Landscape" changes again. Then ya'll are required to
"pitch in" one more time to stay in the game.


Good Luck!

"...You guys are setting yourselves apart from the pack and now look to move even farther by openly targeting other carriers to strengthen yourself at their expense..." I think being funny is not anyone's first choice.
---Woody Allen