Envoy to get 100% flow to AA.
 

New hires to upgrade in 2.5 yrs and flow in 6 yrs. And.... Go!

First!!



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This forum is just getting stupid.

B*tch please...

I heard from a gate agent's pet unicorn's caretaker that PSA is getting flow into the Air Force to fly F-35s!

I absolutely agree. Yet the, numerous, mods do nothing...

Announcement to be made soon!

Wait did I miss something?? Already have 100% flow.

My toilet has 100% flow too. This thread isn't worth the turds I leave in it though. Queue the Good Luck!

Did someone spike the punch in the envoy lounge?

In other news, Tom cruise is cool again and psa pilots just became the most liked in the industry.

Who fking cares?

Who bro chill, Tom Cruise will always be cool.

Priceless.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

Where might one get a 100% flow toilet? On some days mine only flows about 50%. Maybe it's all the Salsaritas burritos? Time for an upgrade.

Is this the regional forums effort to top the Major Forums number of same subject threads? (those being Delta and their stupid TA)

Siphonic Flush my friend. The good ones will probably pull that burrito out of your hand before you eat it lol.

PSA gets a flow to the F-35? I'm signing up right now.

I get banned for days because I say ****hawk. Yet this stupid ass thread gets to be made. 35phlyer you need to step that game up

I wish my hotel room would've had 100% flow this morning, must have to been turned down to around 25%.

flow.......

No more AA street hires for the forseeable future. Classes will be filled with Envoy pilots & recalls.

It's a good time to be a Envoy pilot!

and uncle sam knows he can get them in the raptors and nighthawks for pence on the pound.

Only till later this year (Fall) is what I'm hearing, so while it may be a good time to be one of the "824", it's not necessarily a good time to be a junior Envoy pilot.

AA will be deferring 30-something Airbus fleet deliveries for several years, so AA narrow body fleet count will drop which will likely negatively impact Envoy's E-175 option abilities. PBS and some returning recalls next year will combine to increase the liklihood of flow stagnation which is not good for AA regionals, but good for AAG as it may alleviate some of their regional pilot attrition at a critical time next year. Parker keeps talking capcity restraint, so this isn't surprising.

In this business and profession, situations change rapidly and nothing can be counted on until it happens.

This is how SWA took the domestic market. Fearful legacies cut flights and cities making room for SWA expansion.
If the airlines continue to let Wall St dictate their business plans look for the Gov't to make moves to force this quasi-utility industry to make service available or face stiff penalties by way of tax policy.

Mesaba thought the same thing with upgrade and flow.... about 100 actually managed to make use of the flow and some have been selected to wait a year for a class date at Delta.... meanwhile the non lifers have lost years of seniority in the merger and the flow

I'd like some of what Ric Wilson is smoking.

The problem is that if there's stagnation on the AA regionals, people will keep going to other places.

FOs are moving out to better places. Jr CAs are moving to better places. AA is not the only place, the only people that will stay here are the ones waiting for the flow or the one that don't want to apply.

Yes, that appears to be the present situation. I understand pilots at Envoy for the most part have not altered their career approach by refusing to only consider staying at Envoy. Not sure about the other two regionals though, but if another legacy or in most cases an LCC offers a class (something tangible vs. a projected, hypothetical promise), most pilots will take it, especially when that promise is years away. Considering there are so few pilots to fly RJ's in the future, industry stagnation would be about the best thing to happen to the legacies as that would be the only model that would likely ensure a minimally adequate cadre of regional pilots in the future.

It would have to be something that forced all the legacies into that mold though.

Have you applied to United and Delta? How has that worked out for you so far? You claim Jr CAs are moving to better places....where? Spirit? JetBlue? That may be better than the Regionals...but it's not mainline. And even then, it's difficult to get on with those airlines.

There are 10,000+ pilots applying to the 3 majors left in the United States. Many of those 10,000+ are already working for an LCC, have more PIC time than most Regional pilots have Total Time...and an Airbus type rating to boot.

You think that you and every other wide eyed Regional pilot will some how magically skip ahead of all of them? How? Because you "really, really want the job!"?

We can be cynical about the flow until we turn blue in the face. And that is fine. Flow was never a tool of any kind in the past. The old AA back in the 90s and early 2000s didn't care about flow nor did they want it. They used it as a way to protect their pilots from furlough (letter 3) and it was never intended to actually flow any significant amount of pilots from Eagle.

That was then. This is now. To quote the infamous Scott Kirby: The world has changed. AA still prefers military pilots but they don't have an aversion to Regional pilots the way they did back in the 90s. The new AA (ex-US Airways) understands what a flow can mean for them going forward. And they have gone "all in" so to speak with Envoy and to a lesser extend Piedmont. Only because Piedmont is smaller.

You guys who keep dismissing the flow based on how it worked or didn't work 20 years ago are committing a huge fallacy. The worse thing a professional can do in any industry is be stuck in the past and not adapt to the changing environment around them.

Case and point: Still thinking that the majors will come barrel rolling through your bedroom wall when you hit the magical "1,000 hours of PIC time!".... it doesn't work that way. It never has and even less so today. Living with that in your head will only mean you are at the back of the line as your peers flow up to mainline with no interview.

Take it or leave it. People can listen to trolls like eaglefly who have ulterior motives or they can be smart about what Regional they choose to fly for. Choosing any Regional because of quickie upgrade times is a very bad move. Going to work for Mesa or Republic is a very bad move.

Flow is a retention tool for regional pilots. Giving up 10 or 12... years seniority it a tough pill to swallow. But thankfully management makes it really easy to leave. They have destroyed everything good about flying in 1 time zone.

They will get flow to USAIR side as well.

Its a good time to be an envoy pilot!

Yes, I have applied, I have done my homework and I'm almost out of Envoy.

I'm not waiting for a flow, neither have TPIC. There are jobs, just have to network and get your face out. Making them match your face with a resume it helps.

I wish you the best of luck, but you are acting like you just discovered oil on the surface of the moon.

You are not charting unknown waters here. Everybody networks. Everybody attends job fairs. Everybody waits 3 hours in line for a 5 minute handshake with a mainline recruiter. Everybody collects stacks of recommendation letters. None of this is new, and none of it gets you any closer to a mainline job. Sure, it beats doing nothing. But it's akin to spinning your car's wheels in the mud.

The only way to truly increase your chances is if you are part of the friends and family plan. Assuming you don't have any military flight time. Other than that, you are just one out of thousands. And those other thousands are also networking and getting their face out there.

Too many of us think we are doing something nobody else is doing. That is a residual effect of our jobs. We sit in the cockpit with either a Captain or an FO but never work directly with another person who is our direct peer. So you fly around thunderstorms perfectly, make smooth landings, great radio calls, etc....and after a while you begin to get it in your head you are the best at what you do and nobody else can do it as well. You don't have another FO sitting next to you doing the same job for you to compare with. Or another Captain if that is your position.

That spills over into other areas of life. So you network and do a bunch legwork to get that mainline interview. You begin to think you are the only one doing it. You get your letters together and polish your resume and think nobody is doing it as well as you are.

Most pilots will spend years trying their best to get out of the Regionals...PIC or no PIC. An eventual job with an LCC like Frontier will be more likely to happen than United or Delta. And even then that will take a good 5 years of Regional flying to materialize. Some may get lucky, sure. Happens all the time. That doesn't mean that we should all count on a large heaping of luck to move on. If you have the opportunity to work for an airline that has a true flow, and that flow is WORKING as advertised or better....that would be a better choice than going to work for an independent Regional with no flow and rolling the dice.

Exactly. Many CA's here at Eagle have been doing all the networking and job fairs to get the hell out of here for YEARS. Including myself. Exceed all the quals, perfect records, piles of internal recommendations, years of volunteer work, extensive work history, high GPA's, connections in management positions, TPIC and so on..

The only people "regularly" getting out are going lateral, taking way lower career earning corporate pilot jobs, going to crap places like Allegiant or Frontier.. Which Frontier would take 7+ yrs just to get back to current eagle CA pay.. Some to JB and Spirit, and a few to Cargo. While some of those can certainly be a step up from here, for FO's especially.. They are not Legacy jobs and many wouldn't want to spend a career there so another jump years later is still probably going to have to happen. So get back in line to start over 1st year again if you are lucky enough to finally get hired.

The people going to actual Legacy carriers this year from Eagle outside of the flow are probably less than 30 or so. Of well over 1000+ trying, and 500 or so trying very hard. Doing everything possible with many connections.

Not sure where people get this idea that it will be so easy with the magic TPIC.. Spirit or JB maybe.. But many CA's can't even get called from there either, even with attending job fairs and internal recs. UAL, DAL, AA, Hawaiian, AK, Umm No. Those are about a 1 in 50 shot with people just like you right now. I could name most of the pilots here that have gone to UAL, DAL and AK this year and I know hundreds of pilots here very well.. Those names of people getting Legacy jobs get around quickly via word of mouth and Facebook etc.. Most that got those jobs were also working in CP office briefly, check airman or in management positions too. Regular line pilots are very few.. FO's are even fewer.

No. But because I have a degree from Riddle.

Oh, how you salesman like to slice and dice the facts to get the sale. :rolleyes:

That's all I've done........be cynical about the present flow, which you supposedly believe is fine, yet demonstrate you don't by your salesmanship and criticism of that skepticism. Just like a true salesman though. The fact is YOUR ulterior motive is to get pilots to Envoy and clearly NOT to other regionals. It's so obvious, it's become grotesque. Yes, the past flow (Letter 3) WAS indeed designed primarily as furlough protection for junior AA pilots and the arbitration history demonstrates that, but the present flow, especially at Envoy is NOT supported by reasonable foundations that are REQUIRED for it to work as advertised (AKA sold)......at least YET. THAT requires a minimum of TWO commitments that must CONTINUE to function correctly for as long as that flow-through is in place. First, AAG has to commit to it by committing to Envoy/Piedmont/PSA etc. as the sole advertised methodology to get to AA and that is NOT the same as the managements of Envoy/Piedmont/PSA advertising X years to upgrade/flow based on projections which can change overnight. Then, the more difficult (actually almost impossible) of the two commitments requires in Envoy's case the hiring of at least 50 pilots/month to supply the fuel to make that engine run or at the very least a sufficient number of pilots to meet whatever flow AAG requires. If that number goes down monthly, the 2.5 upgrade/6 year flow projection almost certainly slows.

Without those two commitments that must demonstrate themselves to be successful, all that's left are projections and promises, both of which have been made in the past repeatedly at Eagle/Envoy and both of which have always not materialized as advertised (sold). It doesn't matter how many times trolls like you parrot the claims and promises made to you as without those commitments, that's all they will remain.......claims and promises. Demanding or expecting other pilots turn off their thinking caps and become certified morons and just blindly following your begging and pleading isn't doing anything for anyone but yourself.

By your own admission, the world changes and what was then isn't now. Your primary error is not applying those inevitable rules to yourself in that the world can easily change once again at any time and what is now, is not guaranteed to be then and that is the point. No one can promise you a rose garden to play in tomorrow and you can't promise that other pilots that either.

Supposedly, that's what the sales team says about their own flow, i.e., that it's simply a "back-up" plan if what you are doing and may be successful at works. I don't see how they can fault you for that. The back-up plan in question at Envoy/Piedmont isn't built with very firm cement though, at least not yet. Thus, any pilot not subject to that yet should think long and hard about starting over at the bottom just for a wobbly back-up plan like the present upgrade/flow projections at either carrier.

The flow through contract sounds great, but why is Envoy struggling to attract more pilots than other regional airlines? Yes, there's a pilot shortage, but other regional airlines are filling their new hire classes while Envoy gets less than 30 a month. Also, why is Envoy closing bases everywhere (down to only DFW and ORD)? For the airline to be more appealing to potential new hires it has to prove that it can keep its domiciles open and reassure everyone that it won't get any worse. Not being negative here, just honestly curious.

How many other regionals have as many pilots per month going to a "LEGACY" carrier as Eagle does (with our Flow + limited outside Legacy attrition)??

Answer = 0

We are putting more pilots at Legacy carriers than anyone else right now. Vast majority being AA.

You can't argue with that. It's a fact.