Clearly, your condition is one of paranoia mixed with delusion.

Self-importance ?

The discussion of Envoy's situation has NOTHING to do with ME and EVERYTHING to do with Envoy and the misinformation of a core group of characters some of whom I'm sure are associated with CLR. ;)

I'M special ?

Where have I directed my comments at myself as the prime point of a post ? Additionally, where have my comments also been directed at, associated with or involve others who I believe are as "special as me" ?

Answer : Nowhere. I have rarely if ever discussed MYSELF in this or other threads and is rarely, if ever the point. Your obsession with me has confused you. :cool:

Unreasonable Expectations ?

That would be those like you not only expecting a guaranteed benefit without the foundation to support it, but attempt to sell YOUR unreasonable expectations to others. Actually, I consider THAT quite narcissistic.

"Arrogant" behavior ?

Yes, on that one I can see why you would think that. Considering the success of your sales pitches or in reality, the lack thereof, I realize how easily you could convert YOUR frustration into MY arrogance.

Admiration ?

Again, the subject is rarely about me and only turns that way when characters like YOU turn it that way. The subject from my POV is Envoy, the industry and accurate information to assist others in making INFORMED choices, not eaglefly.

Lacks empathy ?

Look at some recent posts here or on the other thread. You'll note some empathy even to those that don't give the impression they are worthy of it. Of course, it's hard to give empathy to those intent on weaving horse**** into Egyptian cotton.

What you have formulated in this assertion of my narcissism is essentially a strawman argument, but I realize a satisfying one.

Hey, if you want an example of someone with a TRUE NPD among other personality disorders, look no further than RJ pilot. Considering his penchant for being a pathological liar (Envoy EMB captain straight to GV captain), it mixes well with a narcissistic personality (advertising his $250,000 phantom salary) also with delusion (his conviction he knows my identity, which has always been wrong).

You should PM each other and build a friendship if it doesn't already exist. You have a lot in common.

How would you know ? The person you keep outing me as, ISN'T the person I am. If you want to lead some of these gullible puppies around with this treat, that's fine, but just so WE both know you're full of it, that's all that matters to me. ;)

It sadly appears that for many of you characters, if you say something on this forum (or other forums ;)), it must be true at least in your own minds and hey, knock yourself out. Attacking me still wont change the fact that unless AAG commits to Envoy and Envoy hires A LOT of pilots to cover attrition, it's all fantasy. Of course, when one cannot dispute the MESSAGE, one frequently has nowhere else to go but attack the messenger.

Is it JUST accidental that when I comment to another with a general statement of the younger generations documented overexposure to psychological meds in past decades aimed at no individual(s), that the only ones who appear to take it personally and counter-attack me on a personal level are the usual suspects here ?

I don't think it's an accident. I think it's VERY revealing.

Sure thing Thrustlever.....Whatever you say!

speaking of thrustlever....

some the posts in the forums matched the copied posts on facebook until a guy called him on it, then he unfriended him and deleted all his facebook posts.

Well, let's see. I'm trying to get this all straight now, so bear with me.

Since according to RJ pilot (and perhaps a few others, but it was him that made the initial claim IIRC), my name is "Joey" AKA "JJ", AKA "frosty tips" and most recently "thrustlever", that must mean either I am the one you speak of on Facebook or somone was poaching posts from elsewhere and posting them there, which isn't hard to do. Since Facebook isn't anonymous as far as I'm aware of it would seem to be easy to confirm, yes ?

So, if you could prove that those names are all associated with the same person, that would go a long way to substantiating all these so far baseless claims repetedly made by an obvious liar. If not, it would seem to indicate that advocating the concept of poaching and believing baseless claims has become an epidemic among many at Envoy and if so, perhaps the problem isn't with me, but within many at Envoy ?

Just a few thoughts anyway.........

I'm telling you, do what I did. Put him on ignore. It makes reading this thread much more enjoyable when all the crap he says just doesn't show up.

I like his posts, in my opinion very rational arguments.

Good Luck!

Of course you would. I've never seen such biased posts that promote the downfall of another airline then when the two of you have something to say. Your posts are nothing more then outright lies with the intent of stirring the pot. You act like a know-it-all, but in reality have probably been in the industry for a very small amount of time with very little life experience to draw from.

Any argument that either of you ever makes ignore simple facts and numbers yet somehow that is "rational?" Please.

Unfortunately the mods refuse to do anything about the outright lies the two of you tell, which is really doing a disservice to the APC community. Go run back to your little circle jerk at PSA. Newsflash, nobody here likes you or anything you have to say. You're a troll and your personality is very indicative of the typical PSA pilot.

Part one true, part two not. When you begin basing an entire group off one person then you become no better than him. No pilot here I know of condones his comments.

It is THIS poster who not only promotes misinformation, but demands the mods act as his weapon to silence others opinions that he disagrees with and THAT is the real disservice to the members here. This forum is neither a dictatorship for any one member, nor are the mods a weapon in his arsenal to silence dissent.

What I've stated is that basically as it stands now, Envoy cannot support the projections of flow to AA (or the upgrade schedule) without an equal number of new-hires that as of now, have yet to materialize. Today the representatives of the DFW base held a teleconference and the info indicates they basically agree with me. Kudos to them, for at least SOMEONE at Envoy believes something factual should be represented about Envoy's present situation. The information I have essentially stated that;

- In order for the flow to work as projected by Wilson letter, 30-40 new-hires will be required every month, that so far has not happened and that the actual new-hire rate is 25% of that required.

- Of the number originally projected to flow this year, that number will now actually be about 75% of projected or roughly 175 pilots. Next years projection to flow will be about the same and that would equate to about 14.7 pilots/monthly average for the year. That number almost matches EXACTLY with the projection of 14.7 pilots/month Envoy plans to upgrade through the end of next year (18 months). Clearly, these numbers now have ALREADY been diluted from the projections of just weeks ago and this reduced number is STILL based on getting that minimum 30-40 pilots/month in the door as new-hires at Envoy.

This is what I've said all along would be likely to occur.

- Due to AA's deferral of Airbus aircraft, the Envoy option abilities have now fallen to anywhere from 6-20 aircraft depending on other RJ reconfigurations. As of now, AAG has made no announcement of additional E-175 options being converted to firm orders for Envoy.

- Potential good news for present 824 pilots is that they may have access soon to new-hire slots on the US Airways partition, however since no mention of that increasing the flow numbers which have actually now been ratcheted back from that Letter's projections, it is unclear if that means less or no flow to the AA partition. Supposedly there was mention made of possibly making either Envoy or more likely all the WO's as the only pathway to AA by none other than Jerry Glass, but that would require AA approval and that will neither be free to the company, nor cheap. I consider that a long shot unless AAG is willing to pony up and make AA pilots compensation more like that of DAL pilots. As it stands now, AA pilots are angry and frustrated AAG management is dragging their feet on implementing JCBA contractual provisions most beneficial to AA pilots.

So, in a nutshell, most of my assertions appear to have been validated by the DFW representatives and the fact remains that AAG has yet to make concrete, long-term commitments to Envoy pilots to ensure Wilson's projections materialize and Envoy management has yet to demonstrate either the willingness or ability to meet the hiring requirements to make it happen.

Why would AAG not excercise their option for another 90 E175's though? I read about the Airbus order deferral by AAG but help me understand how that affects the additional 90 jets on option. Are you saying AAG cannot commit to those jets anymore?

If AA needed them, they wouldn't be options, they would be orders. It was just a carrot dangled out there to get Envoy to vote yes. AAG is not committed to the options.

The RJ fleet count for AA is tied to the number of narrowbody aircraft at mainline. The retirement schedules and now delivery deferrals will limit the ability to add further large RJ's absent another change to the narrowbody retirement schedule.

I see what you mean.

They would be stupid to do that. Who's going to fly them when they start arriving in 2016 and 2017? There won't be anyone left to fly them, bad investment.

That's a lie.

They haven't invested in anything beyond 40.... that's why they are options. The 40 will show up, beyond that. not so much.

Have you looked at the price of a CRJ from Bombardier? Especially what they are willing to do to sell more? Embraer would have to really sweeten the pot if they hope to get AA to exercise any of those options (envoy or republic). Then expect Parker and co to come to envoy IF they chose to exercise the options and say "either you take xyz concessions or we go with the other carriers options."

I'm fine with never having to go to PBS...

Doesn't RAH have a firm order for 47 E175's? That contract agreement is with American, and there is no word of cancelled orders from them.

Options aren't free. It is an investment.

Options can be sold.

I think all 47 have been delivered. When that order was announced back in 2012 I think the original number was 56. But there were also options in the order for an additional ~50. Again it was a few years ago but I thought those options if exercised had to be for AA . Although some have said those options expired

Thrustlever moving his vag lips in 3.....2.....1

Yes, and as more independents can't staff their existing flying (already happening) they won't be exercising their large RJ options. Meanwhile we've got the staffing to fly them.

It's exactly what I said. Whomever has the pilots will get their options exercised. Whomever can't, won't.

we're shrinking because our flow is working. Our attrition is not much greater than our hiring if you remove the flow.
We lose 35-40
20 are flows
We hire an average of 15, some months more, some months less.

Our attrition is mostly due to flow. We are the incredible shrinking airline because 62% of all new hires at AA have come from Envoy. The sooner people realize it's working, the sooner they can get in line.

Done...

Good idea

I did that also, so much less BS to read now except when people quote him

How many "large RJ" options are out there for Envoy to poach ? You allude to resources for Envoy to poach that I really think don't exist to any significant degree. Let's look at the present playing field, shall we ?

- Envoy (wholly-owned) : Shrinking significantly and to an unconfirmed level. 47 CRJ's still being transferred to PSA Airlines. Can only take an additional 6-20 options above their modest 40 aircraft E-175 commitment. Rest of fleet is obsolete and with limited lifespan, but while fuel is cheap, still usable. Once that changes and should staffing continue to fall as scheduled to unknown goals, look for these aircraft to be systematically parked. Several hundred senior captains that are also financially obsolete.

- ExpressJet : 344 jets, but only 30 of which fly for AA/U. Perhaps 275 pilots committed to AA/U ops which is likely to be phased out over time due to their strong relationship feeding competitors. Normal attrition will cover this situation and this carrier is likely to eventually end its relationship with AA in the future.

- Mesa Airlines : Strong relationship with UAL, so future unknown with AA. Only 9 options for AA flying and operates CRJ-900's which are valuable aircraft and won't be transferred to Envoy as Envoy is slated to exit the CRJ flying business, which is shrinking and whose attrition is far outpacing its recruitment.

- Republic Airlines : Retiring UAL's Q400's so that will temporarily ease staffing concerns there as attrition covers that. Almost all aircraft on order have been delivered, so no option ability to give to Envoy. Good candidate for consolidation with Envoy, which would dilute flow for junior Envoy pilots and future new-hires so as to provide equal opportunity to all of combined carriers pilots, should that occur. Could theoretically gradually transfer the Eagle E-175's to Envoy, but those would just be replacement aircraft for Envoy which wouldn't assist any flow-through engine all that much.

- SkyWest : 335 aircraft for Delta/United and only 30 for AA/U. Likely to also end relationship with AA due to STRONG relationships feeding AA competitors.

- TSA (Trans States) : only 15 aircraft for AA (11 actually from Envoy, but also obsolete E-145's with limited futures). 4 months worth of Envoy pilot attrition is all that staffs this carrier for AA. I don't foresee a long-term relationship with AA here and pilot attrition to non-regionals will provide little relief to Envoy to support any long-term flow engine. Aircraft are all obsolete 50-seaters as well with limited lifespans and no order/options commitments from AAG to fail to staff.

- Piedmont (wholly-owned) : Mostly turboprop routes, but getting some obsolete 50-seaters from.......you guessed it, Envoy. Fairly small carrier whose main question is the future of their majority turboprop route structure which likely can only be financially supportable by new turboprops. No "large RJ" options to give to Envoy.

- PSA (wholly-owned) : Still getting Envoy's 47 CRJ-700 transferred there. 35 obsolete CRJ-200 likely to be phased out as staffing becomes an issue and the larger CRJ's arrive from Envoy, very much like Envoy and their E-145's, but likely faster. 24 CRJ-900's already there and looks to become a solid CRJ-700/900 operator for AA.

- Air Wisconsin : 71 obsolete CRJ-200's. This carrier is the one most likely to be phased out or consolidated. A good bet it may be acquired by PSA, which will help staffing there and not Envoy. Easy training logistics for their present pilot cadre, should that occur.

All these AA regionals will be streamlined and the thought that Envoy will be the recipient of most of their pilots (which is what would be needed to support the aggressive AA flow you are selling...for FREE, BTW) is very unlikely as this will all take time, perhaps another 2-3 years to shake out. Legacy and LCC attrition at these carriers will siphon that hoped for pilot stream to inconsequential levels for Envoy.

I don't see many "options" to exercise and even those that do exist, will not likely have the pilots ANYWHERE to staff them. THAT is why I believe AA's regional network will shrink by up to half, just with virtually all larger RJ's in the 64-76 seat range.

You're shrinking because pilots are leaving not just to AA which is REQUIRED of AAG/Envoy by arbitration award, but also by outside attrition which is far exceeding recruitment AND the fact AA has hired from the street. The new projection from your own union indicates only 15 pilots per month will flow to AA next year on average out of 2000 pilots. That's not much of a flow-through vehicle attraction for new-hires.

1/3 of that 62% were Letter 3 pilots also required to flow due to arbitration award and MORE IMPORTANTLY, occurred at a time when AA HAD NOT BEGUN hiring off the street. Since then, your "incredibly shrinking" airline has simply met the arbitrational requirement to transfer X number of pilots, that's all. Next year, only 175 pilots (all STILL among the arbitrationally required "824" of which perhaps 450 or so are left) will flow. At that rate, it will take almost another 2 years just to get THOSE pilots to AA (if everything runs smoothly). The PPA pilots are a totally different animal and by early 2017, it's just as likely Envoy will be consolidated with other carrier(s) completely rearranging any flow projections for present non-824 pilots there or anyone who signs on in the interim.

BTW, I was reading an article in ATW-plus dated 5/21/15. Although the title was, "American Airlines to Integrate Regional Carriers", it stated a quote from Hashimoto that AAG "is NOT interested in the next generation of regional jets, at least for now". Interpret that as you wish, but I don't think that bodes well for AAG exercising ANY options on large RJ's in the future, at least not until they are confident they can find pilots from ANYWHERE to fly them for a stable period of time. Thus, all your poaching claims don't hold water in my opinion and seem more born of hope, then fact.


*Note to forum; Since Cujo has fled, this will be directed to those here interested in considering all points-of-view whether agreed to or not.

You've been on this forum for almost a decade now and I'm still waiting for a single, solitary post of yours that says anything of substance. The above is simply another one of your nocturnal farts. Those who hear it might giggle for a second or two, but then it's quickly forgotten. :cool:

View PostUnread Today, 06:04 AM
Remove user from ignore listeaglefly
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It's been done for a while. Pretty soon everyone will have blocked that douche and we won't even get to read his posts through quotes!

* Another note to this threads participants and please don't quote it so as to avoid inflicting further agony on members already in the throes of self-imposed emotional distress :

This is an important post to understand. Clearly, the majority of members here are interested in multiple points-of-view, even if they disagree with them and on this subject include those both not at Envoy and some that are. This is a sign of maturity in engaging in discourse. Others though, exhibit two traits that say more negatively about them, then it does about me. First, if one reads my posts, they are simply opinions and discussion/debate regarding a SUBJECT, unlike, the less mature members who personally attack the member instead of debate his message when they disagree with it. The second and more disturbing trait, is the demand and/or expectation that others not just disagree with them, but actually have the right to CONTROL them so that others will not hear from those they disagree with. It's the desire to silence dissent.

This trait is commonly seen among the governments of the Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea and Iran among others. Unfortunately, the post above highlights that while we live in a free society and a democracy, there are always those who believe the only opinion that should be heard by others is one that they agree with and that in reality, they believe those two concepts only apply to their points-of-view. For those unaware, there is a segment of pilots at Envoy who subscribe to this very philosophy, but that does not encompass the majority there. Many pilots there are just as critical as me and question the claims and efforts made by a small, but vocal minority to skew and spin the situation in the hope it will benefit them. All one has to do to avoid my comments, is simply not read them.

Don't forget RJ Pilot and Firstclass

**Standing Ovation!**

You must be (insert perceived insult to discredit the opinion). True ignorance is limiting yourself to information and opinions that only align with your own.

I think pilots and newbies are smart enough to take the information in and decide for themselves what may or may not be true.

That's not true. One of my friends had an argument with a Captain once who didn't "believe in" windchill because TAT goes up as wind speed increases.

Done. It's not worth the time arguing with a moron that doesn't even work here anymore. He has serious mental problems and some sort of compulsive incessant posting disorder.

So nice how he has been banned or finally gave up on Eaglelounge as well.

I just joined that club as well. He's on my ignore list now and this forum just improved ten fold.

I actually agree with this. The majority of the unpleasantness here isn't rooted in my opinions or posts per se, but the hostile responses and personal attacks they generate from the "usual suspects" (the core vocal minority upset I'm openly questioning their sales pitches and motives). If they don't read my posts, it should eliminate the retaliatory attacks and hopefully, discussion can return to factual information and debate on the subject.

Where is the fun in blocking RJ Pilot. His useless post and unsuccessful baiting comments actually provide a certain predictable entertainment among the more serious trolling. Between his calling that one guy "joey", his failed attempt at claiming to be a lifer turned GV CA, and the now retired "Good Luck!" Youalways know what he is posting, even if blocked.

First Class just models his behavior of his hero. So they are one in the same.

Same here. I wish you envoy guys the best.

GoodLuck!