You guys should have negotiated in-airport therapist into your contract. Yall are some of the angriest and most disgruntled pilots around. Always pointing fingers at everyone else and whining. Such a two faced group of pilots. Complain about PSA, yet yall are beyond excited to watch Republic sink and take their planes. It's unreal. You can say concessions are holding the regionals back, and that is true. But the biggest downfall of this industry is pilot groups like you. Ones who fail to see management aging everyone, and instead just whine and complain about everyone and everything else.

Places like PSA, RAH and Mesa and the pilots willing to go there for quick movement at any cost and work for undercutting contracts are a big reason we are in this situation in the first place.

Not all of it, but without that there would be no more regional whipsaw.

Big picture, we are all part of the problem because there is zero unity.. And always some people/companies willing to screw somebody else to get ahead. Being handcuffed to Seniority lists also ruined this profession.

Don't hate da player, hate the game.

Lol it's too easy with you guys... Didn't mean to pee in your Saturday morning Cheerios! ;)

Says the guy that "really wanted to go to eagle", but took the PSA kool aid.

Yes, people like you are the ones screwing the industry. Enjoy PSA...

Nah...no worries. Happy weekend :)

I made the right decision too. Don't be mad at me for enjoying my decision and life more than you. You make me even happier that I didn't come there.

Not really, the 3 year Eagle FO commuting to RSV is screwing the industry. Hes showing the company there is nothing that would force him out so go ahead and walk all over him.

The longevity pay scale screws the unity in this industry. $121 for senior captains $60 for junior ones $24 for Fo's.
I am suppose to have to sleep in the airport so a senior captain can keep up with his x-wife's spending habits.
The biggest con in this industry was the senior AE captains convincing everyone else at Eagle to "hold their line", and that it was a WO'ed fight not a senior vs. junior fight.

As per my previous post that I didn't know how many 824 had gone through -

379 out of 824.

That leaves 445 slots remaining.

So if AA hires 800 next year and Envoy lets 400 flow that places the end of the 824 in the late fall/early winter 2016.

Yes, that means that the Protected pilots start leaving soon. That means 2010-2011 hires should start upgrading by summer.

Good luck with that. They're going to meter. Since we have to cover what everyone else can't, they need the staffing here.

Please see my previous post where I said pretty much that.

At the end of the year still has to be 50%. It doesn't matter if they meter or not.

They're actually very excited about being able to send as many as they can. That kind of flow will drive new hires here without them having to pull endeavor style bonus payouts...

Like it or not, their plan has been doing pretty much what they said. They got 28 new hires this month. They seem happy with that too.

There's lots to gripe about here; lots. But there's lots to gripe about at every regional. That is slowly changing.

Most commuters here no longer have to have crashpads, the DFW guys no longer have to buy themselves hotels for short term training events, you get a hotel in base for any night you were originally scheduled a hotel someplace. Hotels before/after uncommutable trips; 200% OT fairly regular, increased commuter policy events (and more enhancements under discussion).

We're working on reserve rules, potentially a satellite base in MIA that may help many local guys work closer to home and if structured correctly should hopefully lead to the restoration of a full domicile. There's lots going on and it's not all doom and gloom.

Except for the preassigned 0400 RAPs necessitating a commute in the day before (and lost time at home), the always incorrect pay checks, the ****ty schedules for line holders, or the handing out of missed assignments like candy on Halloween (even for a fatigue call), just to name a few.

I reread Nicolau's Award and the 824 agreement, and I just don't see that. the closest I see is:
Please show me what I'm missing.

To me "will make it's best efforts" is permissive language whereas "will" or "shall" is absolute.

Until the 50% IS achieved, in aggregate over time.
They have to make it up.

Sure, out of those 28 how many came from the pipeline mills? 25 maybe?

Good Luck!

Only one true OTS was in that entire group of 28. That isn't bad for pilots in the regionals. I'm surprised they only trained 28 combined out of two classes. I was hoping for around 50. Hope they train more in the future.

Please don't, we would rather not have you here again. Feel free to apply at PSA though, I think you'd fit in good there.

NO THANKS!!!!

Good Luck!
We Believe You!
My The Force Be With You!

I must have missed something. Are pipeline instructors not real pilots??

They are certainly more real than the airports you have been flying in to.

When someone breaks into your house, steals your stuff and then the police catches the thief, are you rejoicing over the return of your property or the thief's "misfortune"? You will be hard pressed to find an envoy pilot who rejoices over the demise of another pilot's career (PSA pilots excluded). There is a fine line between rejoicing over your own good fortune and gloating over the misfortune of others. Many learn this lesson on the playing field while playing youth sports. It's OK to be happy you won but before you celebrate, you meet your rival face to face, congratulate them on a game well played and honor them as a worthy competitor. The gratuitous gloating and poor "sportsmanship" displayed by so many PSA pilots over the last few years is not even worthy of comparison with the glimmers of joy demonstrated by envoy pilots after having been subjected to years of brutality for your benediction. Happy at the demise of RAH, NO, relieved that just maybe the 4 years of stagnation and beatings might come to an end, yes. Your comments, wakewash, can be likened to you standing outside a battered woman's shelter throwing rocks and insults at the poor woman leaving the facility. An action, I guess, I have come to expect from your "type".


Every new, junior pilot at any airline is going to be subjected to the least desirable schedules. Name me on regional carrier who would not require their junior pilots to be on an early call. Its part of the business. I used to think envoy had some pretty bad schedules until I started looking at the sequences of the other regionals. I was floored about how many uncommutable lines most regionals have. We could be better but we are far from the worst (and improving).

With how long reserve is at envoy, it isn't "new, junior" pilots that are the ones only subject to preassigned early RAPs. It's the 40% of all pilots that make up the reserve list who are default assigned 04:00 RAP after days off.

That is true, we have FOs that have been on reserve for 3 to 4 years. Mostly due to the management's scheme of parting out L-Eagle to all the other regional carriers. They made block hour models a year or two ago based on projections of lateral FO movements and capabilities of other regionals to staff large ASAs. Given the fact that those other carriers have not been able to fulfill their agreements and envoy pilots have not made the lateral moves in mass as Parker expected, they are shifting their strategies. envoy has only half the amount of flying for AA that it did a year ago with only a 20% reduction in pilots. I think that the return of that flying announced recently is only the beginning. Having so many pilots on reserve during a time in which many carriers are not able to fulfill their ASAs is actually a very good thing. Do you think Parker will continue to assign routes to a carrier that is cancelling flights left and right due to staffing or a carrier who have is under utilizing their current pilot group. Parker would like nothing more than to continue to shrink envoy while growing the other "whip saw partners" but current pilot market forces will not allow him to do so. We won't have 40% on reserve for much longer, we are simply in transition. With the E175 training bubble, rumored 400 flows next year and increase in block hours, we are simply in the mist of changing a plan that was instituted before the resent rapidly changing environment. In other words, an 18 month upgrade at a company today doesn't mean that a new hire today will upgrade in 18 months and it seems quite unlikely that the 4 year reserve life experienced during a period of shrinkage at envoy will be the experience of a new hire today, during a period of growth and movement.

That is the truth. This junior "pay your dues" argument doesn't fly anymore when the reserves dealing with this are 0-4 yr FO's and creeping up even longer each month.. and 8-12+yr CA's. At a freaking regional.

Putting in 10 years at a POS regional isn't enough time to get a single weekend day off and only get 6-7 days off a month with the pre assigned 0400 trash every week?

The difference with places like PSA and Compass is you are "junior" for 3-6 weeks for an FO and 9-14 months for a CA there. Then you aren't junior anymore. At Envoy, 10 years later and you are still VERY junior and on the absolute worst schedules we have with 7 days off a month and 0400 starts every week, you just assume not even bid because you get your last choice anyway. People say live in base. Well, after closing 5 MAJOR domiciles.. good luck with that. I have lived in 3 of them then kicked out every time and currently in the process of getting kicked out of another one. Not doing it again.

Hummm, did you just say that Pilots are the new currency, and that whomever has the pilots will get the flying.....

where oh where have I heard that before....

The Cuj is working in solving those issues. Free hotels for commuters will help your cause.

Good Luck!

Well they are pilots. Not doubt about that, but the way you guys are selling this is far from the truth. No 28 pilots out of nowhere flocked to envoy all of the sudden.

Good Luck!

I'll come out and say it: Anybody rejoicing over another airline's downfall or misfortune is a complete idiot. Sure, we've got trash talking trolls in this and every other board who are either showing their true colors or just throwing flame-bait out trying to start a war.

Everyone here has seen massive shifts and changes in the number of carriers, carrier size and where the flying is going. It shifts monthly, sometimes even daily.

Nobody I've flown with has said a bad word about RAH crews (though opinions were different about RAH's BOD and management), though they could have an alter ego that spouts garbage on bulletin boards.

In other words, shut up. You could be next. Envoy people should know better, we just went through the wringer. It's someone else's turn to take the punches, maybe it's our turn to have a little fortune. But don't forget what it's like and keep your stones in your pocket. It could turn around again in a heartbeat.

It's certainly better than the carriers that don't provide them...

Envoy to get 100% flow to AA.
 

Are you so far gone that you have started to believe that these management teams do anything out of the goodness of their hearts? There is a direct underlying reason that your company has resorted to implementing these commuter policy changes and it is nothing to be proud of. Instead of doing your management's bidding and recruiting, you should be denouncing them for the actions that brought about the base closures that necessitated these changes in the first place.

While I agree that management is not doing all this from the goodness of their heart, how can you argue that this is not a benefits that most can enjoy? The fact is, most airlines is having staffing issue and most airlines will have to be creative to attract new hires. This is only the beginning. Sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride.

The ONLY person who mentioned first RAH aircraft going to Envoy was RJ Pilot, a person whose only mission to to troll and spread animosity under a sarcastic guise of "good luck." However, as I admitted to him - that was a flawless victory. He knew that by being the first to say "Envoy is salivating at RAH's jets" that would immediately create animosity between the two groups even if it wasn't true. Simply trying to counter his argument brings more attention with phrases like I started this paragraph with. That in turn just fuels further discussion and defense of said topic. As predicted, within just a few posts of his "Salivating" comment, we were already to the "our routes vs their routes vs mainline."

While it would be prudent to say no one at Envoy is "salivating" at the potential downfall of RAH, at this point the damage is done. While I admitted RJ Pilot has indeed won with his comment, I do know there is no way to reverse it. I'll concede he is a masterful troll and knows what he is doing. He is definitely no GV pilot (does anyone believe that?), and most likely not an Envoy pilot anymore (fired a few years ago) but really a masterful troll.

It's been fun buddy. gg.

Making everybody "feel good" by pointing out how stupid they may have been gets us what?

I haven't seen anybody at Envoy badmouthing RAH pilots. That being said, just over 3 years ago Envoy management promised us 175's if we voted yes. Well, we voted yes and a few weeks later RAH was awarded the 175's. I know there's a significant number of Envoy pilots who still see the RAH 175's and think Envoy should be flying them.

Well, they shouldn't feel that way. You're timeline is a bit off. We were never in negotiation for those jets. AMR's first B-scale offer was the summer of 2013. The Ejets had already been awarded to RAH by Tom Horton during the bankrupcty.

Would they have had come here if Horton had not sent them to RAH during the BK? Probably yes; but you can't hold the RAH guys to blame for what our jackass management did during bankrucptcy.

Further proof why getting away from AMR was actually a good thing. Up until recently I thought we would have been better off under AMR than AAG. But then I remember that stunt...which was done pre-merger, mind you. I also remember under AMR their single tracked mind about "spinning off" Eagle. It was all they could talk about.

AAG came in and squashed that idea completely and sent Mr. Spinoff himself packing: Dan Garton. Ironically, where did Garton land? Republic. Of all places.

Despite the growing pains we endured shortly after the merger, it should be obvious by now that we are much better off under AAG than we would have been under AMR.

And I hate, absolutely despise Republic management. Bryan Bedford in particular and I make no secret of how I feel. HOWEVER, that is in no way a reflection on how I feel about Republic pilots. I respect the pilots and hate that they have to work under such a sleezy crook as Bedford.

We were promised those aircraft by AMR in 2012 if we signed the bankruptcy contract, remember? Tony and his administration did a HUGE disservice to this pilot group by not emphasizing just how imminent a merger with US Airways was. We should have known we were negotiating with the wrong people.

The October 2012 contract with AMR was the one that had "furlough protection" in lieu of an actual fleet plan. But it was more than suggested that we would be getting the E175s with that new contract to begin replacing our 145s. Then 3 months later AMR strikes a deal with Republic for those same aircraft. Slap in the face and knife in the back.

BS. You guys are waiting on the outcome of their TA since it will be "sweet" to get those 175's in MIA since it is "your" flying.

Ask the Cuj why the delay on the MIA satellite base is.

Good Luck!