I know things escalate quickly on here but please understand this is an honest question.

You're going to make noise as you should but to what end? Demands and grievances that will go unanswered? Years of arbitration that won't amount to much of anything? Sure you have the 824 arbitration sort of being honored but how much have those careers been slowed with no compensation? If contracts or our avenues of recourse actually meant anything, wouldn't every regional be hesitant to violate the contract? It seems like a regular occurrence and they keep getting away with it.

It seems like a regular occurrence and they keep getting away with it.

that would be alpa's fault to a large extent.

Don't want to crash the party or anything but, I was saying this all along and you guys wouldn't listen. The company will do what they want to regardless.

New Envoy Information
 

Oh, go ahead. Everyone likes another "I told you so."

You guys must be squirming in your seats with happiness about your forum victory.

I work here and saying I told you so, you think I'm squirming in happiness? No. However I have no problem highlighting the outright lies this company tells. They've declared war on the pilot group with their bold antics so if a new pilot wants to come here, they should know the truth. Until management decides to change their corporate culture and actually FOLLOW the contract and any agreements/awards I would recommend that any new-hire stay far far away from this place. 5-6 year flow? Ha! That could happen if agreements are followed but this "leadership" team has shown they have no intention of doing that. Sad.

Agreed. This has really been the foundation of my comments and the reasoning behind my criticism of some of the bad actors here who are here to do nothing but spin melodramas into fairy tales for the purposes of luring the simple-minded into their existence. I think the primary reason why so many are outraged is that they believed or desperately wanted to believe "things are different this time". They're not. Envoy doesn't HAVE to meter, it CHOOSES to meter and is doing so at arguably a point where they have the most flexible staffing and lowest amount of flying tasked to them.

Let's look at this from a snapshot POV. For the month of February, they imply that releasing 5 more pilots to AA would apparently destabilize their operation for that month and perhaps March. We're not talking about Summer. Fall or beyond as they could always meter legitimately in the future. No, they are simply maximizing their interests because..........well, they can. They've been doing this for decades and so nothing is new and this SHOULD be of little surprise to anybody. In the future with the PP program I believe they can meter to 25 and so that should be expected regardless of the situation. Same with upgrades and one would be prudent IMO, to assume the slowest possible advancement. Fact is, we haven't even seen some real game changers yet, like consolidation and so those would likely impede advancement even more then anticipated based just on the latest realities.

Their blast of yesterday amounted to what was a creampuff thrown at management in response. :cool:

30 January 2016

Fellow Pilots,

This week we learned that February’s flow-through to American would fall short of the requisite 50% by 5 pilots. Preliminary, unconfirmed information also indicates that subsequent months may be metered below half as well.

As you know, Letter 15-01 was agreed upon in December 2014 by both parties, and provided that “upon delivery of the first EMB-175 as set forth in Appendix D and assuming 824 pilots have not yet flowed through to AA at that time, 50% of all AA new hire training slots, no fewer than 30 per month (subject to the 50%), shall go to Envoy pilots until a total of 824 Envoy pilots have flowed through to AA.”

The parties’ agreements go on to say that, “the intent is to provide 50% of the AA new hire training slots to 824 AE pilots in such a way that AE operation is not disrupted.”

Under the present circumstances – wherein Envoy pilots are witnessing zero time lines, part time lines, hard lines falling short of guarantee, and reserve coverage that equates nearly half of the pilot group – there is no basis to conclude that awarding the required 50% of the AA new hire class slots to Envoy pilots would disrupt Envoy’s operation.

The Association recognizes and appreciates that there were months in 2015 where Envoy sent more pilots than were required. It has been expressed to us that there may be months later in 2016 where the minimum required monthly flow will be exceeded. While that is welcome news, we also expect that the fundamental standard of 50% for each class will be followed or exceeded. Additionally, as our staffing situation currently affords the ability to send more than 30 pilots per month, outpacing the overriding requirement of “50% ratio in aggregate over time” would be a matter of prudent planning. It is possible that a major shift in headcount or an increase to our fleet plan may eventually drive a future need to meter, however that time is not presently upon us.

While we strongly desire to work cooperatively alongside management within the framework of our binding agreements for the continued success of both Envoy and the pilots, we also need management to demonstrate its commitment to fulfill or exceed its responsibility under our agreements. We urge management to recognize the value of meeting or exceeding expectations – instead of engendering negativity – and allowing our flow-through to realize maximum potential as a retention and recruitment tool among those who should be its largest supporters: current Envoy pilots.

In unity,

Envoy MEC


Air Line Pilots Association, International

Yup.

I think they are allowing management to define the interpretation of that LOA unanswered and that's how managements interpretations become precedent. If they don't know how many AA intends to hire, how can the "50%" requirement be met at any given point in time ? The idea that "truing up" AKA "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" at some later date meets such a requirement is absurd, also considering the value of said transfer to AA is diluted due to loss of seniority if it occurs later at some mythical point. The claim of "disruption" is preposterous considering it is only 5 pilots combined with Envoy's grotesque over staffing (which this BTW claims near 50% reserve coverage as I previously stated, but was supposedly corrected to "the high 20's") and to simply put out another impotent blast to the pilots amounting to a hat in hand "aw shucks, won't you please treat us better and honor your contract" statement should be an embarrassment to those pilots represented by this latest group of flaccid enablers.

Again, in referencing Envoy's own advertisement on this forum stating, "...with Envoy guaranteed to make up half of all of American's new-hire classes.". One really has to ask that if they are representing that definition to the pilot world, why is Envoy ALPA not requiring them to defend that in a grievance hearing ?